The new HFP chat thread – Monday 11th May

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• James says:

  11 May11 May 07:20

  Does anybody have any experience of how long it is currently taking British Airways to process cash refunds to your credit card?

  I cancelled a booking because of cancelled flights last Monday (4 May 2020), but nothing heard so far. Was wondering if any other readers have had recent experience of this?

  • Sapiens says:

    11 May11 May 07:31

    Was warned up to 3 weeks, but got mine in 3 days,

  • BJ says:

    11 May11 May 07:34

    Allow 14 days before contacting them again.

  • ChrisA says:

    11 May11 May 07:52

    I arranged two refunds on 31st March. One came through within ten days. I am still waiting for the other.

  • Bob says:

    11 May11 May 08:09

    I cancelled on 21st March and still no payment I have my Avios but no 241 voucher has been credited to my account 😤 cancelled 2 flights with Lloyds Avios and got money and Avios within days

  • Philip Jackson says:

    11 May11 May 12:01

    How are people getting through the telephone lines to request a cash refund? Just via brute force?

    • Rob says:

      11 May11 May 12:16

      Sometimes you get lucky and get routed to a quiet call centre. Calling the Bremen number seems to work well, as does the Cape Town number.

      • LewisB says:

        11 May11 May 13:22

        I got transferred to a lovely lady working from home in Manchester. Had a nice chat actually. She processed seven of my award bookings for a refund. I received six of the seven within two days. Annoyingly the one missing is the large 241 booking. Voucher and avios showed up immediately on my account.

      • Philip Jackson says:

        11 May11 May 13:35

        Thanks Rob, I got lucky on my second go – was through to an agent in around 6 minutes. Told to expect refund to be processed in the next 30 days.

    • BJ says:

      11 May11 May 16:03

      Used main numbers for BA Holidays, Virgin, and amex travel. Wait times were approximately 10, 15 and 1 minute respectively. All calls within last week. I just guessed the rush has passed.

  • Lyn says:

    11 May11 May 18:01

    I have been waiting almost 4 weeks, which is what I was warned it could take. At that point I was just grateful to finally be able to reach them by phone after trying every day for two weeks. Things seem to be moving faster now though.

• DJ says:

  11 May11 May 07:27

  Hi all,

  I’ve just read this on the HSBC Premier travel insurance:

  “ Under the terms and conditions of this travel insurance we will cover cancellation or coming home early due to insolvency of a tour operator, travel agent, airline or other service provider.

  Currently, there is no cover under the terms and conditions for additional travel and accommodation costs if, at the end of their trip, customers cannot use their scheduled return flight home and are forced to stay abroad.”

  Is it common for travel insurances out there? Does Amex Plat cover returning flights?

  Thanks

  • GeorgeJ says:

    11 May11 May 09:33

    DJ, my Amex platinum travel ($ card, and there are differences between cards) does not specifically cover cancellation by or failure of the carrier or operator so your HSBC cover is better for this type of event, even with its current limitation.

    • Spk says:

      11 May11 May 12:20

      Really? Thought the $ plat card’s insurance was better than the regular Plat.

• Ilou says:

  11 May11 May 07:41

  I have booked a trip to Abu Dahbi with Etihad.

  My flight is for sure cancelled as I am supposed to fly on the 22nd of May.

  I have booked this trip via an online agent (as it was 50£ or so cheaper rather than booking direct)

  Etihad is only offering a voucher and no cash refunds, which was confirmed with the travel agent. I am not looking to rebook this trip anytime soon so not interested in the voucher .. what are my options here please ?

  • BrightonReader says:

    11 May11 May 07:50

    Has the flight actually been cancelled yet?

    It’s not helpful to use language like ‘for sure to be cancelled’. It either has been or it hasn’t.

    Once it has you can have a refund. If YOU cancel before they do then the most you can hope for is a voucher

    • BrightonReader says:

      11 May11 May 07:52

      That is assuming this is an ex-EU flight when EU261 applies.

  • Rob says:

    11 May11 May 08:11

    You’re stuck. You can’t do a recharge against Etihad as you have no contract with them. I think there is some rule exempting agents from credit card chargebacks – not unreasonably, as the agent doesn’t have your cash.

    The only option is to try a chargeback against the agent but don’t hold your breath.

    • ilou says:

      11 May11 May 08:21

      Yeah, learnt very valuable lesson.. Never book with an online travel agent !!!

      This is a flight from LHR, can I claim using the EU regulation or through HSBC Insurance/Amex Platinum ?

      • BrightonReader says:

        11 May11 May 08:25

        Has the flight been cancelled? so please answer that question.

        What you can do / get is determined by that.

        • ilou says:

          11 May11 May 08:28

          Etihad has suspended all flights until further notice. On their website, there are only a handful of flights operating, mine in not among those.

          I have not received a cancellation email from travel agent or airline but It will be cancelled for sure given the above

        • BrightonReader says:

          11 May11 May 08:31

          Then you need to wait until it is actually cancelled

          As I said above if YOU cancel then all you can hope for a is a voucher.

          Once they cancel you can get a full refund but you have to wait until that happens and then you need to go throught the TA for the refund

          Patience is a virtue.

        • ilou says:

          11 May11 May 08:40

          Happy to wait but even if Etihad confirms the cancellation of the flight, they don’t give cash refund, that’s the problem only credit/voucher

        • TGLoyalty says:

          11 May11 May 08:53

          Legally you are entitled to a refund. When the flight is cancelled is when you start a chasing for a refund and perhaps a chargeback. Not before.

        • ilou says:

          11 May11 May 09:01

          Thanks.

          Of course. My question is how likely I am to get one ? Is chargeback best option ?

          I can claim through insurance as UK advice against travel for my dates ?

      • Lady London says:

        11 May11 May 19:27

        you need them to cancel the flight. not you. you dont have to request your refund before tge date of the flight.

        as soon as you get a cofurmation of cancellation contact bory travel agent and airlibe by phone, email or both. Quote EC261/2004 as statute meaning you can choose refund its not tgeir choice its yours. Provided the airline cancelled not you, you have the right to a full cash refund without any deductions regardless of anybody’s terms as statute overrides that.

        if the travel agents terms specified a booking fee then yes they can keep that. but they cant take anything that wasnt in the terms when you booked in terms of fees taken by travel agent.

        after youve contacted both if refused then give your credit card co info about your attempts to get refund and request card to refund under section 75. ask for the ransaction(s) billed by airline or agent to be refunded – sometimes its split on your card.

        if that doesnt work then ask about chargeback on card – which is all thats available if chargecard not credit card. if cardco refuses say you will take to ombudsman if credit card.

        if all else fails do a moneyclaim dot gov dot uk naming both travel agent and airline as defendants and let the court sort out who’s liable for what.

        most likely you will get your money back on section 75. but only if they cancel it not you.

        • Lady London says:

          11 May11 May 19:30

          travel insurance will want you to try refund on card first. plus you need to look carefully at your policy wording to ensure your situation is covered.

    • callum says:

      11 May11 May 08:22

      What makes you think that? I can’t find anything about such a rule, and the only articles talking about it say the exact opposite to you – that travel agents are requesting that rule be brought in.

      • Rob says:

        11 May11 May 09:09

        This was the general view of other comments on here over recent weeks (not from me). It is down to your card company in the end. In any event, you then need to look at your moral grounds for taking a substantial sum from a travel agent which has zero chance of reclaiming it from the airline. Why should the agent even give you a voucher? They will still lose the full value when you redeem it.

    • FloriGuy says:

      11 May11 May 10:04

      Not yet it would seem, but may be about to come in.

      https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/367125/credit-card-chargebacks-pose-great-danger-to-agents

    • Charlieface says:

      11 May11 May 14:39

      What’s wrong with small claims against Etihad directly?

      • Rob says:

        11 May11 May 15:20

        No contract with Etihad, no payment to Etihad.

        • Charlieface says:

          11 May11 May 18:35

          EC261 surely

• Sarah says:

  11 May11 May 08:15

  Does anyone have any experience if Radisson cancellation policy during this time? I have non-flexible booking and they say that they will give credit for the same hotel for 1 year (which I’m not going to use as it’s in Canada). And if you haven’t used credit within 1 year, they will give refund then. What’s anyone’s thoughts on whether this is reasonable or not?

  • Rob says:

    11 May11 May 09:12

    If the hotel is closed, you can take a full refund. If it open then, frankly, you should be grateful you’re getting a voucher because you don’t legally get anything. Travel insurance should cover you though.

    • xcalx says:

      11 May11 May 10:04

      How is Emyr Thomas at Bon Vivant dealing with refunds

      • Rob says:

        11 May11 May 10:07

        Emyr generally doesn’t handle ‘pay in advance’ bookings – you are booking Best Flexible Rates which are pay on departure. If he did book an advance payment room, the charge would be taken by the hotel, not Emyr, and your contract is with them.

• Claire says:

  11 May11 May 08:46

  I want to purchase a second hand vehicle via Amex / Any other reward card, the dealer is accepting Amex.

  Apart from having enough credit limit left on the card, is there anything else I should be aware of?

  Thanks

  • Andrew M says:

    11 May11 May 09:48

    The dealer would almost certainly give you a further discount if you used a debit card rather than Amex so you are effectively paying for those Amex points.

    • Claire says:

      11 May11 May 11:00

      The dealer has advised me the price was non-negotiable (online retailer)

      • Genghis says:

        11 May11 May 11:06

        The price is always negotiable. There are a number of free tools online to see the “true” value of the car. Check that you’re not overpaying.

        • Claire says:

          11 May11 May 11:11

          Thanks Gengis, this retailer is called carzoo, not a local dealer.
          Due to covid-19 the local dealers are (or should be) closed, hence I havent been out to look yet…
          The retailer offers a full 7 day money back gurantee (never used them yet so i hope this doesnt count this as advertising)

      • Chuck says:

        11 May11 May 11:11

        The price of a second hand car is always negotiable… more now so than ever, the car market is in a huge recession.
        Advise you invite them to negotiate or you’re going elsewhere … dealers will be fighting for your business.

  • Sunguy says:

    11 May11 May 12:36

    *MOST* dealers – especially the branded ones have a maximum amount that can be settled by ANY card transaction – its often ~£1000 – I understand that this is because of the fees they are charged – if its an independent dealership – you may find that they will wave that rule if you agree to the purchase price of the car being more expensive than you had initially discussed (this is because they cannot charge you, by law, a credit card charge, despite them being charged a fee themselves – and lets face it – they are all money grabbing!).

    So, my advice is to be careful – you may get a “discount” for paying via a bank transfer…..and this might be more worth it than the bonus miles/avios/points, etc you will get from your credit card transaction.

    • Claire says:

      12 May12 May 16:52

      I agree with local dealers but this one is a online exclusive dealer, so they will only accept the listed price. I was hoping to hit a target with the amex too so it is kind of worth it. Im not sure, may hold out for good amex sign up offers

  • Lady London says:

    11 May11 May 19:35

    no section 75 cover on Amex.

    • Lady London says:

      11 May11 May 19:36

      plus if business amex or if bought in te name of a business, no cover from the point of view of any consumer legislation at all.

• MattB says:

  11 May11 May 08:53

  Anyone tried to shift a credit balance with amex to another persons? We rebooked on my wife’s card (which I have a supplementary for) so have an almost identical balance that’s needs to be paid.

  • Roberto says:

    11 May11 May 08:59

    I asked recently. “Cant do it” they said but refunded to my bank and I used that to pay the money owing on her card. It came in before the bill was due in about 10 days.

    • MattB says:

      11 May11 May 09:21

      Ok thanks thought it would be the case, happy to wait a bit more then to get it refunded to current account first.

  • Charlieface says:

    11 May11 May 14:41

    I had worse. They said they would, then sent me a letter saying needed to sign that it was ok and send it back, but they didn’t give me the form. I called and they put it through again, insisting that wouldn’t happen this time. Same result.

• Aaron says:

  11 May11 May 08:53

  I cancelled a booking for a Marriott hotel in Greece. I had booked on Marriott’s website and am a long standing Bonvoy member, Marriott’s global policy is to refund all bookings cancelled before 30 April (which this was).

  The Greek hotel is offering a credit voucher only. Marriott, on my behalf, asked the hotel to reconsider. It refused. The hotel says a recently enacted Greek law allows them to refuse all cash refunds for the time being.

  Having booked with Marriott, from the UK, without any mention of “Greek Law” at the time of booking, my instinct is that Marriott should ensure I get a refund.

  What should I do next?

  • Rob says:

    11 May11 May 09:03

    Credit card chargeback should do the trick if the hotel is closed. If it is open then chargeback could fail because you could have gone and Marriott policy is not ‘law’.

    • Aaron says:

      11 May11 May 09:05

      Thank you Rob – appreciate the speedy response.

      I fear that Amex will say “the change in Greek law means there is no breach of contract”. I am sure that’s not right, but I expect this will be a long winded process!!

      • TGLoyalty says:

        11 May11 May 09:31

        I believe Greece has started to unlock.

        The law change can be as simple as hotels can reopen (like in parts of Spain from today).

        If you have non-refundable stays where the hotel is accepting guests it’s not their issue you can’t get there as they are willing to accept you.

        • EJH says:

          11 May11 May 09:48

          I’m in the same position as Aaron (Greek Marriott property – but with a fully refundable booking cancelled within the 100% refund timeframe but post-new Greek refund law). Hotel is refusing to provide a refund on the basis of the new law, and Marriott is refusing to intervene. I guess fully refundable is just that subject to change in law, which doesn’t seem right.

        • TGLoyalty says:

          11 May11 May 09:56

          I think in your case you have full right to chargeback / s75 as you have a booking that gives you a full refund if cancelled by you. Those terms shouldn’t change because someone is trying to take advantage of the regulation about refunds for non-refundable bookings.

          “The regulation allowing Greek airlines, ferries and tourism enterprises (hotels and travel agencies) to reimburse customers with 18-month vouchers for bookings that were canceled due to the coronavirus (Covid-19) pandemic, instead of cash refunds, was published in the Government Gazette on Monday.

          The measure ensures that holidaymakers will not lose their money and will have the chance to use their booking towards another holiday at a future date with the same business.

          The legislation also addresses liquidity issues for Greek travel agencies, hotels, airlines and ferry companies in efforts to mitigate the effects of mass cancelled trips due to the Covid-19 crisis.

          However, it is noted clearly that if the vouchers are not used within 18 months by customers, businesses will be required to refund the initial amount of the bookings in cash.”

          Though it’s entirely possible the regulation has been poorly written allowing companies to take advantage.

          “The 18-month voucher concerns individual bookings or reservations for package travel. It concerns cancellations that have been made by either the tourism enterprise or the customer of any nationality due to the Covid-19 pandemic, during the period from February 25 2020 until 30 September 2020.”

        • Riccatti says:

          11 May11 May 13:34

          Except that Marriott promised that Advance Rate bookings to become cancellable until 24 hours before arrival.

          Reservation should reflect it. It follows that a property should return a deposit.

          (Yes it was backdated change of cancellation terms, but there is an argument to be made. Cancellation terms have been changed to flexible ones.)

        • Riccatti says:

          11 May11 May 13:39

          @TGLoyalty

          An example of socialist imposition on the freedom of contract by a socialist governmental system.

          That’s if Greece introduced the rules regulating hotel/travel bookings “for everyone”.

          But yes caveat emptor — all bookings with Greek properties now NON-REFUNDABLE. Exactly at the time where the industry has to exercise flexibility if they are to retain custom.

        • Crafty says:

          11 May11 May 15:18

          Travel insurance surely covers this, as FCO continues to advise against all international travel.

        • Lady London says:

          11 May11 May 19:49

          look at the wording. it says it applies to canx due to covid. if your booking is 100% refundable if anyway then you could e cancelling for any reason not just covid – so if that was all the wording then it doesnt apply to your booking as this is not the reason you’re cancelling.

          i’d do section 75

• Rash says:

  11 May11 May 09:20

  Hi all, my brother used his Avios to book a hotel in Barcelona on the 29th of May. As it looks like this isn’t going to happen he’s having trouble contacting BA in the usual ways via email, phone or twitter. I know others have had issues contacting them for flights. Has anyone found a way that works?

  Or does he just wait it out and expect it to be automatically refunded?

  • MattB says:

    11 May11 May 09:25

    I rang up yesterday to cancel a hotel booking, got through in a few mins. They have consolidated the lines so had to ring same number as flights but there was an option for hotels/cars and all done promptly. Getting the cash back to my account is another matter!

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