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The new HFP chat thread – Thursday 30th April

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We have decided to run this new daily chat thread on Head for Points.

Historically, the daily ‘Bits’ articles were the defacto repository for random comments and questions.  It is unlikely that the news flow will be so big over the next few weeks that we will need many ‘Bits’ articles, however.

The comments under this article are where you should post questions about travel and, indeed, anything else on your mind.  At this tricky time, and given that many of you are stuck at home self-isolating, we want the HFP community to have a place to chat.

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Comments (265)

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  • Neil the optimist... says:
    30 Apr30 April 06:54

    I’m due to fly BA to Vancouver on 25th July for 3 week family driving holiday around NW US and Canada. Am I delusional in thinking this is likely to happen?

    • Anna says:
      30 Apr30 April 07:22

      It’s not impossible that overseas visitors will be allowed back in by then, however you may well need a vaccination certificate or proof of immunity, and most of all, travel insurance which would cover you in the event any of you contracted Covid.

      • Chrisasaurus says:
        30 Apr30 April 08:03

        A vaccination certificate by July?

        My guess is travel will be an option by them but the experience will be limited – hotels, restaurants all running on a minimalist basis being the main difference.

        For business travel that’s not an issue (travel budgets of course another matter entirely) but for a vacation it may lessen the appeal

      • Chrisasaurus says:
        30 Apr30 April 08:40

        I’ll sell you a certificate!

      • Nick_C says:
        30 Apr30 April 08:43

        And that was Anna’s point!

        • Anna says:
          30 Apr30 April 11:32

          Quite… I didn’t realise I needed to be so specific, assumed the readership on here was fairly intelligent 😉

      • Dino says:
        30 Apr30 April 09:26

        There’s also no proven immunity according to the WHO!

        What a strange post.

        • TGLoyalty says:
          30 Apr30 April 09:52

          Coronavirus are not an unknown entity and scientists know how human/animals react in general.

          The general caution to saying you have immunity is because of all the unknowns right now. Not enough time for lots of people to show immunity and the change in that over time, number of mutations and because they know some people/animals gain no immunity after an infection.

          With all of this it’s wait and see time.

        • Darren says:
          30 Apr30 April 09:55

          Not yet as it’s too early to confirm one way or the other. But this doesn’t mean that the virus will not follow this route and people who have had it become immune, it’s just too early to confirm this. The WHO are being cautious in this respect.

        • Lady London says:
          30 Apr30 April 11:44

          Yes. Any immunity found so far is believed to be partial and short term and not acquired by every individual that has been attacked once by the virus.

          • Darren says:
            30 Apr30 April 13:07

            I’d be interested in the source of this, general reporting or specific scientific body?

        • Lady London says:
          30 Apr30 April 11:46

          Yes. Anna can be quite sly with her wit. She has created several words that are now in common use here like Seagulls, voldesites etc. It’s clear she has a literary background

        • Nick_C says:
          30 Apr30 April 12:12

          Too subtle for some readers, clearly. OTOH it has made some people think about why overseas leisure travel will not be returning anytime soon. The level of optimism by many is astonishing.

          • Lady London says:
            30 Apr30 April 12:29

            Yes but don’t you just love it, though? I live the level of intelligence, wit and frankness on here. And the optimists – whether just young, new to the game, or sparklingly innocent, all cheer me up.

    • Paul says:
      30 Apr30 April 07:44

      I have Bali on 22nd July. Not a chance in my view but I live in hope particularly as some hotel rates mean I could holiday in splendid isolation for 3 weeks! I am not able to re schedule for 2020.

  • Zander says:
    30 Apr30 April 06:57

    I’m sorry but I just can’t see it happening. We are in this too deep, to have any real chance of lifting restrictions by then.

  • . says:
    30 Apr30 April 06:58

    Posted yesterday but think people need to see this in an article from HFP to understand what BA pilots are continually up against. Maybe the strikes make more sense now?

    • Mike P says:
      30 Apr30 April 07:17

      I don’t see what else BA could do in the circumstances? The company is going to have to change massively to survive and there will inevitably need to be substantial job losses. This will have to be done at the legal minimum cost.

      • The Original David says:
        30 Apr30 April 07:26

        Yeah, I really don’t see the story here. I haven’t seen a copy of the pilots’ employment contracts, but I assume BA isn’t breaking any contractual obligation? Obviously sad for all the individuals and families affected, but “loss-making company lays off unnecessary workers” isn’t really a headline, it’s happening everywhere. BA is not a charity, nor is it the Department for Work and Pensions. What do you propose as a better solution?

        • J says:
          30 Apr30 April 07:37

          Because the UK (and US for that matter) have poor rights regarding redundancy compared to other industrialised countries, decent companies especially for professional jobs almost always pay more than the legal minimum, often in the form of a settlement which also prevents the employee from ever suing.

        • Elise says:
          30 Apr30 April 11:11

          This is directly impacting my household (hard working cabin crew). We won’t be able to meet financial commitments with outright redundancy and hope for alternatives, like part time flying as means of keeping some income. This feels like a knee jerk reaction when support from government can be pursued and BA no doubt will have to recruit again. Feels like a slap in the face and a ploy to get rid of a large proportion of staff that BA have been trying to remove for years.

          • Lady London says:
            30 Apr30 April 11:33

            I found that disgusting redundancy letter on yesterday’s daily thread and commented to say the same.

            BA isn’t going bust. Even if they did there is enough government money available for them to be at least someway decent to people they are sacking. Even if there do turn out to be 12,000 of them.

            Notice the letter also says BA is going to use this to force all their employees contracts to be changed and any decent working conditions taken away. I saw British Airways’s saliva drip onto the paper as their lawyer wrote that into the letter in posh words.

            My position as regards the ideal outcome of this has changed. I am still against them getting government support. However what I now want is for British Airways to die permanently.

            If they’re going to scr”w staff on the way out and then turn to nail down their remaining staff to poor pay and conditions then there’s no reason to support them than any other airline. Let’s take their slots away from them and hand them to another airline or new airline grouping. They’ve made themselves the same as the rest of the industry – fair enough – but that also should mean we the UK should save some money , stop treating them as special and take any assets away from them that they didn’t have to compete for like slots.

            The UK will be better for it.

    • J says:
      30 Apr30 April 07:33

      BA offering the bare minimum allowed under the law, as in “minimum statutory” is paltry but not surprising. They’ll do whatever they think they can get away with it’s classic BA behaviour. It’s rather striking how poor industrial relations have generally been at BA and Ryanair vs Virgin and easyJet. And how embarrassing that the flag carrier is in the same category as Ryanair. The fact is though it’s easier and cheaper to make people redundant in the UK compared to Spain, France or Germany. Iberia staff will do a bit better vs BA.

      • Mike P says:
        30 Apr30 April 07:37

        The statutory minimum is the only thing they can sensibly offer at this point. There is the need to take action to do whatever possible to secure the future of the company which means holding onto as much cash as possible.

        • Lady London says:
          30 Apr30 April 12:34

          Companies can still be decent, on the way down. There’s definitely room for BA to still do that.

          Unfortunately though it still won’t get rid of BA.

    • Paul says:
      30 Apr30 April 07:38

      I would suggest that BALPA have seen the chickens come home to roost! BA crew were some always some of the most self important people I ever worked with.

      BA have clearly have a desire to change how flight crew operate and this is the perfect moment.

      As I said yesterday I think the 12,000 announcement is a strong reason to avoid BA for some time to come. Moral will be in the gutter and people don’t serve you well when worried about their future.

      Buckle up it’s going to be a bumpy ride

    • TGLoyalty says:
      30 Apr30 April 10:11

      I always find it interesting when people you could quite easily assume have zero information on BA’s motives or any vested interest in the employees employment status comment on redundancy packages.

      From having been in the position where VR is offered people will make their own decisions on if they want to take it or not based upon the £ being offered. When companies announce up to X jobs will be lost by VR and actually give out Y it doesn’t mean X-Y of CR’s will be made.

      • Mr Li says:
        30 Apr30 April 10:22

        If they only offer statutory then there is no motivation for people to volunteer for redundancy. The 45-day consultation will be a sham.

        • Lady London says:
          30 Apr30 April 11:53

          If they can get away with 45 with those numbers has the law changed? It used to be 30 for low numbers IIRC and 90 for these numbers.

        • Lady London says:
          30 Apr30 April 12:01

          Mr Li having seen a lot of redundancies from the viewpoint of differing stakeholders quite a few times in the UK now across 25 years or so, I can say that every legally required “consultation” period the employer must observe before redundancies is not a real consultancy at all, not ever.

          Employees should consider the consultancy period as extra notice and time for them to try to find another job. It’s not going to change the decided redundancies in any way the employer didn’t plan to at the beginning. It’s a dance – as very well written by BA’s lawyers in their letter. Lots of phrases about consultation and listening. Covers their arsch and means nothing.

          I only know of one instance where “consultation” got an employee that was going to be sacked, their job back.

      • Rob says:
        30 Apr30 April 10:34

        BA isn’t offering VR. It is statutory only. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get rid of at least half the remaining Worldwide and Eurofleet crew.

        You also need to remember that most of these crew CAN’T accept the new contract. Eurofleet do few night stops which makes it easy to combine with a family – that would go under the new system where they would be away for 4-5 days at a time.

        Many Worldwide crew live regionally (I know one who lives in Newcastle) – some even outside the UK – because they only do a couple of trips per month (the annual limit is 900 hours, and a return to California would – since it is timed from logging on for duty – be at least 30 hours in itself) and so physically cannot mix long haul with short haul.

        • Elise says:
          30 Apr30 April 11:15

          We’re very scared! Worldwide crew member with >20 y service in the household and feels like there is no alternative to accept if lucky enough to have a job at the end of the consultation (which I doubt)

          • Lady London says:
            30 Apr30 April 12:08

            So far they’re presenting it as compulsory @Elise. That means you won’t be given the chance to “accept” you will just be told.

            It’s very possible this is just an opening position by BA to set expectations low and VR could come up or enhanced (more than legal minimum) redundancy conditions can come on the table. But right now, I’m sorry BA eontbe asking anyone to accept anything they’ll just be told.

            Your union is your best chance. That, and finding something else for the household if you can.

            Did you know that if you’re furloughed you are actually allowed to pick up hours with another employer? MSE is quite informative on this type of subject.

            Sorry for your position, @Elise and I hope BA is not going to be as indecent as they’re making it look.

          • Mr(s) Entitled says:
            30 Apr30 April 17:53

            Elise, just to say I wish the best for you and your household.

            There is a wave yet to hit and my hope is that the Government has a plan to apply a defib to the economy that has not yet been announced. Time to scrap HS2, save £100bn and get the UK moving. It will be paid back with increased tax revenue in a way that the sink hole that is HS2 never will.

            There is hope. There are options. Hang in there.

    • Doug M says:
      30 Apr30 April 10:58

      How do you link current events to the strikes that took place last year when C19 was unknown. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say,

  • tony says:
    30 Apr30 April 07:00

    I see Lufthansa Group are now mandating the use of face masks at the airport and on all flights, from next week through to the end of August.

    • TGLoyalty says:
      30 Apr30 April 10:11

      Are they providing N95 face masks?

      • TGLoyalty says:
        30 Apr30 April 10:12

        Also if it’s a LH flight no Food or Drink for the whole flight?

      • J says:
        30 Apr30 April 10:22

        Exact laws vary by state but masks are compulsory in Germany on public transport and some supermarkets so LH would be included within that I guess.

      • Lady London says:
        30 Apr30 April 12:10

        🙂
        Quite.

      • tony says:
        30 Apr30 April 12:15

        No, they’re working on the basis that by doing this, you won’t give it to anyone else & their air systems are so good that you won’t catch it, either.

        So you can use a simple scarf if you want. Info on their website (albeit slightly buried).

        But it’s their plane so it’s their rules, I guess….

        • Lady London says:
          30 Apr30 April 12:48

          Will we all have to have new photos in our passports with masks on?

  • Mac D says:
    30 Apr30 April 07:39

    Took virgin 4 days to answer their text service, to then reply at 3am and cancel 15 minutes later, they are done sick individuals

    • Mac D says:
      30 Apr30 April 07:40

      Goodbye virgin points 🙁

    • Bobby says:
      30 Apr30 April 08:13

      Exactly the same happened to me last night. Answered at 3:13am and then closed the case at 3:34am.

    • Jonathan says:
      30 Apr30 April 08:38

      I rang virgin last Saturday to transfer flying club miles to IHG , eventually got through after 94 minutes made the transfer and my IHG account was credited this morning .

  • Bobby says:
    30 Apr30 April 08:10

    I’ve got a hotels.com hotel booking and the hotel is closed. They have offered me a credit voucher for the same hotel, but I’d rather get a cash refund. Having a look online it appears I don’t have any Section 75 protection as hotels.om is a third party travel agent. Does anyone have any first hand experience with this?

    • Rui N. says:
      30 Apr30 April 08:19

      You can just cancel your booking on hotels.com (even if it is non-refundable) and you’ll get your money back in 30 days.

      • tony says:
        30 Apr30 April 08:21

        How does that work? I’m in the same position as Bobby and because I don’t know what’s happening in the summer yet, can’t really take the voucher.

        • Rui N. says:
          30 Apr30 April 09:34

          It’s really simple, all bookings up to May 31st are now refundable. You just go to “manage your booking” and cancel it. It takes a LOT longer to get the refund than previously, but the process is quite simply. Go to your booking and see what it says.

          • Bobby says:
            30 Apr30 April 11:08

            From hotels.com;

            “For customers who booked a non-refundable rate prior to 19 March 2020 for stays between 20 March 2020 and 31 May 2020, we will email you in the coming days to ask if you wish to keep or cancel your existing booking. If you decide to cancel, you will be eligible for a full refund or, in some cases, a voucher allowing you to rebook the original property at later dates. There is no need to call us, but you must cancel your booking at least 24 hours before check-in in order to be eligible for this offer.”

            Looks like my hotel is only offering a voucher..

    • Rob says:
      30 Apr30 April 10:02

      You do have Section 75, not a problem. Hotels.com won’t even have paid the hotel yet.

      • Bobby says:
        30 Apr30 April 11:07

        My stay is May 3rd to May 9th, so they probably would have paid the hotel before my credit card company has processed my S75 claim? The voucher is useless to me so I have nothing to lose pursuing the S75. Thank for your help Rob

      • tony says:
        30 Apr30 April 12:20

        Moneysaving Expert claims that S75 with travel agents doesn’t apply.

        “You’re unlikely to be covered when payments are made to a company that isn’t the one providing you with the product or service. In these cases, the credit card company usually says it didn’t have a direct relationship with the supplier, so isn’t equally liable.”

        As with Bobby, i’m only being offered a voucher for the same property. A Hotels.com voucher I could probably work with, but I can’t see us getting to the same property in the next 12 months.

        Annoyingly, the property is offering those who booked direct, even on non-refundable rates, a full refund.

        • Rob says:
          30 Apr30 April 12:42

          But where is the logic in that? Hotels.com has your money (either because it wasn’t paid over yet or because the hotel has refunded it to them). This would surely allow a chargeback if not a Section 75.

          • Bobby says:
            30 Apr30 April 13:03

            This is Money also say that S75 isnt possible with Hotels.com

            https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-7588047/Why-use-Section-75-make-claim-using-party.html

          • Rob says:
            30 Apr30 April 13:58

            OK, stand corrected. Apologies.

          • Charlieface says:
            30 Apr30 April 15:13

            Yes and no. Rob is right that if the agent hasn’t paid the hotel, you CAN do S75 because the contract is not fulfilled i.e. them paying the hotel.

          • tony says:
            30 Apr30 April 21:55

            I took this up with hotels.com on the chat tonight. They wouldn’t confirm whether the contract was with them or the hotel, or who was holding the money. Their logic was the voucher was more than I was entitled to as I’d booked a non refundable rate, conveniently ignoring the fact the hotel is closed. Utterly infuriating and an hour of my life i’m not getting back.

            Anyway, filed a dispute with AMEX who immediately closed it in my favour (obviously subject to review). My stay isn’t until the end of May so hopefully time to square this away.

          • Barry says:
            1 May1 May 00:17

            Thanks for the update Tony. I’m in the sand position with a booking later in May. Hotels.com gave only offered a voucher at the same hotel.

            What evidence did you have to submit to Amex as part of your dispute?

          • tony says:
            1 May1 May 06:50

            I did a cut and paste of the chat transcript from Hotels.com. Copied it into word and uploaded that.

          • tony says:
            4 May4 May 17:19

            Incase anyone is still reading this, I got a notification from the hotel via Hotels.com today to say the booking had been cancelled, so a refund would be forthcoming.

            Hotels.com actually gave me a channel to communicate with the property and apparently the money had been transferred to them, so it has to come back via Hotels.com to my credit card.

            All very strange – and I won’t be rushing to repeat the exercise any time soon. Feel neither the hotel nor the agent have behaved well here, but in a post COVID world i’m going to be very reluctant to book non refundable rates more than a few days out.

  • Chris says:
    30 Apr30 April 08:19

    Did anyone have any success getting credit voucher or cash refund from lastminute.com? They are by far the most incompetent agency I’ve ever used as their customer service is in the dark and customer satisfaction is the least of their worries.

    • Bill says:
      30 Apr30 April 08:45

      I have a “full flex” flight on 1st June booked on lastminute.com which is likely to be cancelled. Hasn’t been cancelled yet. Im expecting a battle to get a refund

    • r* says:
      30 Apr30 April 12:57

      I had a voucher offer of full value for a flight that was ~£50, or a cash refund of ~£15 after they had taken admin fees, so went with chargeback. Took them about 2 weeks after calling their support line. After you cancel, they send a text or email notifying that your ‘refund’ is ready and then it takes you to their site to click accept on the voucher or the reduced cash value.

      Needless to say I’ll never be using lastminute.com for anything ever again.

  • Shoestring says:
    30 Apr30 April 08:29

    Poison pen piece in the Daily Mail – nothing like having a dig at some celebrity (Gordon Ramsay) when there’s no news https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8269925/Gordon-Ramsay-pictured-jumping-red-light-bike-ride.html

    Obvs Gordon Ramsay did no wrong whatsoever – there was no lockdown in place on March 20th and he & his family were perfectly within their rights to decamp to Cornwall & make it their base. Very sensible precaution getting out of the Plague capital & I’m sure in reality the locals in Rock are being very welcoming and enjoying having the Ramsays as neighbours.

    • Mac D says:
      30 Apr30 April 08:33

      Who cares about Ramsey anyway!

    • Mac D says:
      30 Apr30 April 08:54

      Only if its a reasonable distance

      • Rob says:
        30 Apr30 April 09:53

        Correct.

      • Heathrow Flyer says:
        30 Apr30 April 09:55

        We live in central London and have been taking advantage of the revised ACPO advice, taking long walks in the countryside around the capital, including on the North Downs, Surrey Hills and the Chilterns.

        We come into contact with far fewer people than we ever would going for a walk in our local park.

    • ken says:
      30 Apr30 April 09:38

      Lovely Specialized road bike – yours for £9k if you want the 2020 model.

      Popped into my LBS last week and they have never been busier. Couldn’t get bikes assembled and out the door quick enough.

      One area of the economy doing well

    • TGLoyalty says:
      30 Apr30 April 10:18

      It’s all pathetic. Snitching on your neighbours, hounding people who have properties in your villages, stalking people going for walks so you can leave nasty notes on their cars.

      Just get on with your own lives and stay at home if you’re at risk.

      • Lady London says:
        30 Apr30 April 12:59

        My neighbour has had people come to stay a night or two since lockdown a few times. Pretty sure 2/3 were family who would have travelled some road distance from somewhere else.

        Would I report them? Never. Once I keep out of contact. But I don’t know their full situation and wouldn’t rat them out. I certainly don’t mention to other neighbours who are taking being locked down very badly (we keep in touch by phone).

    • Anna says:
      30 Apr30 April 11:37

      No, the NPCC has said this. The actual police, who work in the Real World, have said this is the worst piece of guidance they have ever seen.

    • Secret Squirrel says:
      30 Apr30 April 11:43

      You don’t know what Padstow / Rock locals are like, I do asbo lived in Padstow for a year and they are very against outsiders but then saying that most who own / live on Rock are now outsiders!

      • Shoestring says:
        30 Apr30 April 18:26

        I have a pretty good idea, Secret Squirrel! 🙂

        • Shoestring says:
          30 Apr30 April 18:35

          Though you are quite correct up to a point, esp Padstow. Would you believe that with all the tourism and restaurant business Mr Rick Stein brought to Padstow – I believe 5 restaurants/ shop enterprises and tons of locals employed on good money (including my brother at one point and he said with the generous tip policy the money was quite OK) – actually about 50% of Padstow people detest said Mr Rick Stein.

          Unbelievable, he’s an affable bloke & did so much good in terms of getting the local economy going. No wonder he spends half the year in Australia.

          It’s probably the same small-minded dislike of ‘outsiders’ and their success that led to some poor malevolent ratting on Mr Gordon Ramsay for no good reason. There are quite a few locals who feel they should be able to get a nice cottage for £50K and it’s all somebody else’s fault they can’t.

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