The new HFP chat thread – Tuesday 28th April

Links on Head for Points may pay us an affiliate commission. A list of partners is here.

We have decided to run this new daily chat thread on Head for Points.

Historically, the daily ‘Bits’ articles were the defacto repository for random comments and questions. It is unlikely that the news flow will be so big over the next few weeks that we will need many ‘Bits’ articles, however.

The comments under this article are where you should post questions about travel and, indeed, anything else on your mind. At this tricky time, and given that many of you are stuck at home self-isolating, we want the HFP community to have a place to chat.

Please only comment under the main articles on the site if your comment is directly related to the topic of the article. This has long-term benefits as its keeps the commentary relevant for people who read those articles in the future.

By default, HFP shows the last page of comments under the article. If you want to see the first page of comments and read them all from beginning to end in order, click here: https://hfp2022.headforpoints.blog/2020/04/28/the-new-hfp-chat-thread-tuesday-28th-april/comment-page-1 The page will refresh with this article but the comments will now show the first page and not the last page.

We will continue to monitor how this is working. Let’s see how it goes. Take care!

Category

General

This article is closed to new posts. Discussion continues in the HfP Forums.

Stu R says:

28 Apr28 April 06:49

Morning all, your thoughts / assistance please …

We’re booked to fly BA on an open jaw to MAD, returning from LIS at the end of June / early July. Obvs, this trip won’t go ahead. Our flight between MAD – LIS is with Air Europa at 10:45 … they’ve cancelled this but not told us it’s cancelled.

They’ve instead sent an email saying:

“ We understand that due to the uncertainty surrounding the current COVID-19 , you might not know if you will be able to complete your journey with booking ID xxx”.

They offer options of rebooking or a voucher – even though they’re not letting on our flight is in fact cancelled.. Given that the flight is no longer running and the other flights that day have different flight numbers, am I definitely within my rights to insist on a refund?

Thanks in advance!
- Steve says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 07:40
  
  How do you know the flight is definitely cancelled? At the point it is officially cancelled you will need to call for a refund.
  - Stu R says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 09:12
    
    If I try to see the seat map on Expert Flyer, there’s an error message saying FLIFO FLIGHT LEG CANCEL. If I try to perform a dummy booking on the same flight, the flight is not showing for booking. I can on assume this means it will not be running.
  - Lady London says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 11:10
    
    I wouldn’t push it. Good chance they are playing games or just ovrrloaded. But likely their systems and procedures would block an agent from refunding till they get round to admitting it’s cancelled.
    
    Within 72-48 hours of the flight I might chase them up if I hadn’t heard. So if you can wait to there’s something from them it might go easier?
- Colin MacKinnon says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 08:21
  
  If they are like BA, this is the first step to avoiding a refund but playing on fears and encouraging a voucher.
  
  Just wait and the flight will be officially cancelled in a week or so.
- Nick_C says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 09:03
  
  You should also be thinking about your BA flights as BA are still operating daily flights to LIS and MAD. Fingers crossed that you are not booked on a BA flight that is still operating!
  - Stu R says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 09:16
    
    I am thinking about that too, although aren’t BA offering flexibility to rebook anyway, for bookings made before this started? If we have to take a voucher for that, it’s not so bad, so long as they remain in business!
    - Michael C says:
      
      28 Apr28 April 11:32
      
      Stu, a friend of mine flies that route (as in flies the plane!) and says she expects to her recency (retraining) long before then, so I wouldn’t back on them being cancelled at all.
      Of course, as you say, vouchers /rebooking should be no probs.
      
      You should catch the festivals at the v. end of June if you’re lucky! (Madrid cancelled, sadly).
      
      Have a goodie if you go!
- Remainder2 says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 09:29
  
  AirEuropa are really difficult to deal with. Phone lines now more accessible but even if you go through on the right options expect to be told you are speaking to the wrong department and when they transfer you the call will drop. What I have learnt is that to get a cash refund considered (ie not a guarantee) when a flight has been cancelled you need to use the web complaint form and ask for refund. They can’t do this on the phone and say you need to do the online form as it is looked at by back office. The usual service standard for web complaints is not being kept to but call centre says it is taking 45 days or so. I’m already past that an no word from them. Helpfully, the web complaint does get emailed to you with a unique reference and a full copy of what you have put into the form. I’ve used this as per of my evidence for a s75 claim with Amex. Not unreasonably, Amex is looking at my claim and not just settled it immediately as 1) its a large value and 2) I’m also claiming consequential loss as my separately non Amex booked internal flights as these could not be used and were not cancellable. At this point the (names) s75 handler has emailed asking for further documents and given me a road map for next steps which I was genuinely impressed with as it was tailored to my complaint rather than a generic response.
  - Kev 85 says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 09:47
    
    “ What I have learnt is that to get a cash refund considered (ie not a guarantee) when a flight has been cancelled you need to use the web complaint form and ask for refund.”
    
    I did this on 1st April and got an email last week with a copied and pasted reply along the lines of “we are busy but you can get a voucher or change your dates by clicking the link below”.
    
    I’ve replied asking for a cash refund and will give them another week before contacting Amex regarding section 75.
  - Stu R says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 09:47
    
    Thanks for this info. I’ll definitely keep it in mind for when the flight is officially notified as cancelled. At this point I’ll start per your suggested procedure.
TripRep says:

28 Apr28 April 08:03

Rob have you a recent definitive position on rights/protection for refund on a Virgin Miles redemption if they go under?

Due to fly in November, booked on Virgin MasterCard, paid outbound and return separately. (My annual travel insurance expires/renews in October)
- Jon says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 08:13
  
  Were the taxes each over £100?
  
  If so I do believe you have a reasonable case for making a claim under S75 for replacement tickets. I don’t think there is an ‘official’ position because there is no precedented cases for this, but certainly in terms of ferry tickets there have been cases of S75 covering it.
  
  All I can say is, after all this, it is likely we will have cases. If you are going to be the test case, you have to be prepared to lose the cost of paying for replacement flights.
- Rob says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 09:13
  
  Under the strict letter of the law you may have grounds under consequential loss provisions. In reality, there is no way the card company will buy you a flexible business class ticket (which is what a miles ticket is) for cash unless you drag them to court. That’s what I think.
  
  Given the speed of the court system, you would be buying replacement tickets for cash and then taking your chances in court in 2021.
  - Don says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 10:36
    
    Buying fully flex would make the claim unnecessarily high and it’s not necessary. In the vast majority of cases claims could easily be under £2k per pax and perhaps as low as £1200. It’s very unlikely fares will be high and the VS shutdown will happen close to departure.
    
    These sort of claims have a much better chance of success with the card issuer and a potentially smooth progress through MCOL.
    - Lady London says:
      
      28 Apr28 April 11:15
      
      You are supposed to mitigate your losses if you reasonably can. That might mean buying a more restricted ticket nearer the time when your plans are certain and claiming that.
      
      @Dawn did get an unfortunately very expensive Business Class ticket paid by her card from Australia when the airline she’d booked stopped flying.
      
      The replacement ticket cost considerably more than the original but given the situation that was the market price at the time for a replacement ticket under s75 consequential losses.
    - Rob says:
      
      28 Apr28 April 11:38
      
      But you MUST buy a flexible ticket. If you book a miles ticket, you are entitled to a full refund if you change your mind about travelling. If the card company ‘makes you whole’ then THEY are entitled to a full refund if you change your mind.
      
      I think you could be sued for the cost of the ticket if they bought you a ticket and you didn’t fly.
      - Don says:
        
        28 Apr28 April 12:09
        
        Well, as I said the ticket price is going to be low. A last minute bankruptcy of VS is unlikely or the passenger is likely flying in many months time from now.
        
        Plus, it makes no sense to fight over S75 as the weeks and months draw in to departure, increasing the cost of the claim and forcing the pax to run with a charge in the thousands.
        
        Book the cheap ticket, fly, then chase it in the courts if the card issuer balks.
Paul says:

28 Apr28 April 08:18

I am a big fan of The Amex Platinum card and have held the card continuously since 2006 and so also have a free BAPP card. Without doubt I have recovered the fees paid over 14 years in insurance claims, offers and chargebacks, generally without quibble. Service has been superb.
Over recent months however I have noticed a significant decline in service and it not just covid related, though it has been affected by this plague just as everyone else.
The use of a Philippine call centre hasn’t helped and there is a vast difference in service between that and the U.K. base.
At £575 a year I do expect more and while I realise the UK fee is lower than other parts of Europe it’s irritating to see Amex shower members with vast MR bonuses to stay but can’t do any more than double points here.
It’s a quandary as I am not inclined to cancel (too much to lose) but the service declines are irritating.
- The Urbanite says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 08:35
  
  Call centres, wherever they are based can be hit and miss. Is is possible the gripe here is with the capabilities of the individual agent rather than the call centre being based overseas?
  
  I only say this because I’ve had some great customer service from the Philippines call centre in the recent past. Similarly had some sterling service from the overseas call centre Barclaycard use though I appreciate people’s experiences do vary.
dr says:

28 Apr28 April 08:19

Getting through to BA by phone – to make a change to an Avios booking – seems to have got much harder… The UK call centre is ‘not taking calls at the moment, please try later’ yesterday and today so far, and the US one has reduced its opening hours, such that calling at 1am UK time to secure a newly-released Avios seat is no longer an option. Any alternative suggestions, please?
- Johnny5a says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 09:14
  
  I’d like to know, as I tried the 0344 number which says they’ve consolidate the lines to 0800 number.
  
  I call 0800 number and they say i’ve come through to the disruption line.
  - Lady London says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 11:05
    
    Sounds like they are all in a staff meeting? Or perhaps waiting for the outcome of the EC transport meeting due to take place today that was posted by someone last week.
    
    We don’t know the agenda of that meeting but it’s being attended by those EC governments that have been supporting their national airlines to force vouchers on people instead of the refund a customer has the right to choose under EC261.
- 1nfrequent says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 14:29
  
  FWIW I’ve found it easier to get through to BA in the UK after 6.30pm (that’s having tried during the day and constantly getting the lines busy message). Each time I’ve done it after 6.30pm I’ve been through within 10 minutes.
  
  1F
Zara says:

28 Apr28 April 08:28

Hi everyone. Does anyone know the admin fee gotogate are charging for refunds? We haven’t been able to get through to them but I did read somewhere on the forum someone saying £70pp. The flights are on a credit card so can we just simply request s75? I’m sure this question has been asked hundreds of times but some help would be Uber helpful as I’ve sorted through the comments for gotogate but struggling! TIA
- Doug M says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 09:27
  
  I think as the credit card is jointly liable you can go direct to them. I suspect in practice they will want some evidence that you’ve tried to contact gotogate. I don’t see why this couldn’t be as simple as a list of dates and times you called, and the outcome, no answer, engaged tone, cut off by answering system, that sort of thing. As for the admin fee I think that’s payable, they did book the flights, and will have to process the refund or deal with the S75 action.
  If you learn one thing from places like this it’s that whenever possible book flights with the airline directly.
- Lady London says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 11:07
  
  Do you not have the email confirmation to hand, that you would have received when you booked your ticket? They have a contractual right to what’s in the terms you were made aware of at the time you bought – they can’t apply any charge later that’s not in those.
  - Zara says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 13:15
    
    Thanks both. We usually always book direct but on this flight we always tend to flight third parties cheaper and haven’t had any issues in the past.
    We managed to get through to them today after an hour wait and they said they would charge some taxes but would not tell us what the amount would be. I have heard people say they lump admin etc into so called “taxes/charges” and they will only process the partial refund once we tell them to- but they won’t tell us the impact of the taxes on the eventual refund!
    Admin charges are fine if it’s sensible but at £70pp that’s £280 for us which does not feel justified.
Lottie says:

28 Apr28 April 08:51

Hi, has anyone had any luck moving a BA cancelled flight to later than August? I have had three cancelled which I have moved but now are all squeezed into June/July and I expect at least one to get cancelled again. The agent was trying to get me to take a refund yesterday which I do t want to do as the prices are all now double what I paid. One agent said at some point they will extend their booking date to September.
- Lady London says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 11:18
  
  Does anyone know if technically you have to book a replacement flight by the date of the cancelled flight? Seems unfair if an airline could be insisting this when future flights may still be in question.
MattB says:

28 Apr28 April 08:51

Morning all, have cancelled my summer holiday to California and tentatively booked for Easter next year. Looking for Hilton recommendations for San Diego? Not sure about location, leaving towards La Jolla where there is a Curio or Downtown where there is lots of choice.
- Amit says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 09:00
  
  We stayed at the Hilton San Diego Bayfront, nice enough property within walking distance of gaslamp. This was 4 years ago, so not sure of the most recent reviews. Nice views over the bay, parking was quite expensive though
  - Kipto says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 09:28
    
    Agree with the above. Very nice hotel, but, even with diamond status with Hilton, we had to queue up with a voucher around the corner at a Starbucks for breakfast.
- Doug M says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 09:37
  
  There’s a couple of Hilton’s, the Bayfront and Gaslight, not stayed at either. San Diego is a great walking city, also has a good Trolley light rail system, and great coverage from electric scooters if you’re up for that. Parking is indeed very expensive in SD. So long as you’re around the convention centre or Gaslight areas you’re fine. Just avoid the out of town blocks of hotels like Mission Valley, nothing wrong with them beyond they’re just not conveniently located for the down town areas.
- J says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 10:52
  
  Have stayed at three Hilton’s in San Diego area (Curio La Jolla, airport, and Bayfront) – would avoid the airport one (not much in walking distance but fun views of the navy airfield). La jolla is call – a village feel with a few shops, bayfront is well located for the gas lamp and downtown but has a frustrating resort fee… all rooms felt fairly tired (as I find standard for US midrange hotel)
- Lyn says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 16:43
  
  I imagine it would be expensive, but I believe the classic Hotel del Coronado, or the “Hotel Del” as it is known locally, is part of Hilton. I think it is on the trolley route.
  - Paul says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 18:00
    
    It’s also about 3/4 mile from a military airfield and the noise is unbearable! It was a bucket list destination for me and while beautiful it was very disappointing.
Alex M says:

28 Apr28 April 09:08

Was anyone able to pay 1000 points for 9£ on their Amex Plat? I get either error message or offered 0.45p per point…
- Suze says:
  
  28 Apr28 April 10:17
  
  Yes I swapped 23,661 for £215.10 balance reduction on 25 Apr. Redeemed immediately without problem. My monthly statement was generated the next day and it already taken effect for that billing period. Some quirks to note: 1/ Some of my eligible transactions calculate at a redemption of £9.00 per 1,000 whereas for many its £9.09 per 1,000; 2/ You can use points against your £575 annual fee if it was billed in the last 3 monthly billing periods – mine shows up at the end of the list of eligible transactions to use points against; 3/ You can only convert points to a maximum that would reduce your balance to zero, ie you cannot run a credit surplus on your account.
  - Alex M says:
    
    28 Apr28 April 10:40
    
    Thanks a lot – very useful!
- Roy says:
  
  30 Apr30 April 18:43
  
  Redeeming against past purchases (in the mobile app) gives me 0.9p.
  
  Redeeming during the 3d Secure popup online still only offers me 0.45p