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The HfP chat thread – Tuesday 7th December

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Comments (553)

This article is closed to new posts. Discussion continues in the HfP Forums.

  • Graeme says:
    7 Dec7 December 08:17

    Query re CEDR / MCOL. I took meta’s advice and wrote a letter to get my cancelled flights rebooked, timeline below.
    Nov 20 – Flights to US booked for Oct 21.
    Oct 21 – Flights cancelled. Tried to rebook to Oct 22, denied due to ticket validity in terms of carriage.
    Nov 21 – wrote a letter to Customer Dispute BA team via Royal Mail signed for. Letter not signed for so emailed to BA Customer Relations with PDF copy of letter and resent via Royal Mail signed for on 23rd Nov.
    6 Dec 21 – Email received, stating terms of carriage again and can’t change position, this was from BA Claims Investigation Specialist, no letter via post received to date.

    AM I best to use CEDR or MCOL from here please? If MCOL, should I book flights (cancellable?) and claim for them? What is the cost for MCOL? Thanks.

    • JDB says:
      7 Dec7 December 08:36

      It isn’t clear if the letter you wrote was just a rebooking request or a proper letter before action? If it was the former, you need to prepare a concise, well structured and argued LBA with your precise required resolution, together with a clear chronology of events from day 1 (with more precision than above as to who you spoke to etc. but keep it brief). If you have a case (ie without knowing your precise circumstances) a good LBA will likely cause BA to cave without having to issue proceedings. The fee depends on the some you are claiming, but can easily be found online and is recoverable if you win. Others may be better placed to advise if you should make a claim for each person but the LBA can cover the party. ‘Signed For’ is a fairly useless RM service that often fails to elicit a signature, ‘Special Delivery’ works much better but is expensive.

      • Graeme says:
        7 Dec7 December 08:40

        SOrry JDB, it was a letter before action as described.

        • JDB says:
          7 Dec7 December 08:46

          @Graeme in which case, if you have complied with the pre-action protocol, you need to carry out your threat and issue your claim (see also @Meta comment below)

      • Jody says:
        7 Dec7 December 09:57

        Really don’t know why people keep saying a good LBA will likely to cause BA to cave without issuing proceedings – there are many on these boards can testify BA don’t always cave and be prepared to appear in small claims Court !
        And don’t tell us al lawyers we don’t know what to write !!

        • JDB says:
          7 Dec7 December 21:22

          If you are an “al” lawyer (whatever that is) how come you mention the “small claims Court” when when I guess you are are referring to is the small claims track of the County Court. That’s better than someone last week twice saying that the FOS couldn’t consider breaches of contract and that only the Crown Court could. I think BA legal is pretty adept at identifying from LBAs who really means business, have put a good case that the court will easily see is sound and settle the majority at that point. Others are challenged and this causes a few more cases to go away as people don’t issue the proceedings they threatened. When you read on here what is proposed by way of complaints and MCOL, many really don’t stack up.

  • Geoff 1977 says:
    7 Dec7 December 08:19

    Already another enjoyable day of comments on here 🙂

  • Olivia says:
    7 Dec7 December 08:19

    Hello from EY12! Bidded for an upgrade, had a charge on Amex for the amount we offered when we woke up this morning but no email and seat number didn’t change.. Interesting scenario but now 6hours in economy. Fun!

    • Rich says:
      7 Dec7 December 09:10

      Probably a pre-auth to check you have the funds. Sounds like a good way to get people’s hopes up!

  • meta says:
    7 Dec7 December 08:30

    I never heard of Customer Dispute team. There is legal department. Have you marked the letter as letter before action? Have you stated in your letter the basis of your claim by referring to UK261 and quote it back to them highlighting the relevant bit? Have you given them a deadline by which to respond?

    If so, then you can proceed to MCOL. Otherwise you need to send LBA, give them a deadline. I think that a week is enough at this point. MCOL costs will depend on how much you’re claiming for. Google Money Claim and it will be clear from the website. You don’t necessarily need to buy a new ticket, but it is preferred as it makes it easier to put a number to a claim.

    For CEDR, you need a letter/email from BA stating that it is their final position.

    • meta says:
      7 Dec7 December 08:31

      That was for @Graeme on page 2.

      • Graeme says:
        7 Dec7 December 08:45

        meta, yes should have been clearer. It was an LBA with detailed history along with EC261 and equivalent UK law quoting c) re-routing and requesting move to October 2022. I did give them a deadline, originally 1st of Dec but letter not received, second letter 13th of Dec. I also emailed (not sure if I should have?) due to original letter not signed for. Reply via email on the 6th. Should I expect a letter response rather than email?

        What are the benefits and downsides of each CEDR or MCOL? Is one better than the other? Thanks again.

        • meta says:
          7 Dec7 December 08:57

          CEDR is free, but takes longer and it is harder to enforce (we learned this from one of the commentators here). MCOL is actually quite straightforward if you follow the procedure correctly. The benefit is that MCOL is much quicker. 28 days + 14 days if BA asks for an extension to respond. Then either they’ll settle or it will go to hearing (not in person, the court will likely just ask you to submit all the documents you listed in the claim). Again this will be much quicker than CEDR, but some here have reported that they might be busy so might be longer than usual.

          • Blenz101 says:
            7 Dec7 December 09:05

            MCOL decisions also tend to follow the law with decisions by an actual judge, CEDR is led by an arbitrator so outcomes for the same claim can vary.

            If CEDR gets the wrong result MCOL is still an option.

          • David says:
            7 Dec7 December 10:00

            Don’t make statements that you can’t possibly know – two friends of mine had in person hearings Re BA claims this week and last week!!!

          • Lady London says:
            7 Dec7 December 14:01

            David did your friends win?

        • Jon says:
          7 Dec7 December 09:13

          In my recent experience: CEDR takes a long time and even when they rule in your favour, there’s no guarantee that BA will actually do the necessary, and CEDR have basically no power to enforce their judgements. They do claim that BA has never yet not complied with a CEDR ruling, but in my case, they only finally did so when I threatened them with legal action (which I could have done without going through CEDR first). If you’re reasonably sure of your case and can front the court fee and, ideally, the replacement flight cost, I’d say go straight to MCOL.

          I suppose maybe a couple of benefits of going to CEDR first would be to gain confidence in your case if you’re not sure you have a strong claim, before incurring the up-front costs of MCOL, and being able to demonstrate that you’ve been reasonable in attempting to resolve the matter before pursuing litigation. Not sure either is strictly necessary or makes much difference ultimately, though. I think if I ever have a similar case again, I’ll skip CEDR and go straight to LBA and then if need be, MCOL.

          • Graeme says:
            7 Dec7 December 09:56

            Thanks all, I will try CEDR first as we aren’t going to October 22 so have plenty of time. If that doesn’t work, I will go MCOL. Thanks again everyone for your valuable help. 🙂

          • Lady London says:
            7 Dec7 December 14:05

            Theoretically if you win at MCOL and British Airways does not pay up, you could send the bailiffs to BA’s place of operations and seize what…a plane? and impound it till your MCOL judgment fully paid.

            I’m not sure of the logistics but if anyone is sending bailiffs for a pre-dawn raid I’m up for it 🙂

          • StillintheSun says:
            7 Dec7 December 14:13

            Just thought I would add my two pennies worth in as I am about to have to decide whether to CEDR or go straight to MCOL. I have the same ticket validity issue with BA and I have a deadlock letter. I have purchased alternative flights and have sent the receipt with a final offer of settlement and I am now just waiting for my time limited offer to expire.

            In the deadlock letter BA say that CEDR is binding and from memory the CEDR website notes that it is binding on the airline but not the passenger. If BA do not comply with the CEDR decision then as well as making your MCOL case out again under the EC Regs, I would also assert as part of the MCOL claim BA’s failure to comply with a binding adjudication given that I will only use CEDR due to BA’s assertion that the decision would be binding on them. Certainly, I know that breach of a settlement agreement between litigants provides a separate and freestanding ground to bring proceedings against the guilty party, but I would need to research whether this also occurs under a purported binding adjudication. It feels like it should 🙂

            Applying some over simplistic mathematics if there is a 50% chance of you winning at CEDR and a 50% chance of you winning at at MCOL (CEDR not binding on passenger) then BA’s prospects of winning both are 25%. You get two bites of the cherry, BA does not. Finally, interest runs at 8% under MCOL which is a pretty good investment return at the moment if you can afford to be out of pocket while all of this drags on.

            So I have tilted towards CEDR first for a maximum outlay of £25 and then push on with MCOL if need be. Of course, others may feel differently!

  • Dan says:
    7 Dec7 December 08:32

    Good morning! Two things i’ve noticed still not working on BA Exec Club:

    1. Combine my Avios – both on ba.com and avios.com – any idea when this will be restored? I have A LOT of stranded Avios!

    2. View transactions – I can see my most recent on ba.com but clicking through to the full detail shows none.

  • Motormike says:
    7 Dec7 December 08:34

    Excuse my naivety- in regards to the annual bonus points threshold on Amex Gold, does this work the same as BAPP where any refunded transactions made after the deadline, for transactions made in the previous period, are added on to next years’ threshold? TIA

  • Jon says:
    7 Dec7 December 08:46

    Anyone have the right link to book Avios hotels with cash (the 15 Avios per pound spent). The website says ‘Click on the Book now link above / Select “Click here to EARN AVIOS”’ but that earn Avios link has now disappeared. Only option is to book with Avios.

  • Saiz says:
    7 Dec7 December 08:48

    Might need to travel last minute to the USA as mum is unwell. Do I need an ‘observed’ antigen test. I have used Project screen before but if it doesn’t need to be observed I will just order their basic antigen test. Also, when leaving USA do I need the same? I’d rather take the test kit with me. I know on arriving back into the UK, it says another test.

    • Track says:
      7 Dec7 December 09:11

      Yes, on the way to the US it has to be supervised.

      On the way back to UK, it does not have be supervised but it is not clarified (in the best tradition of gov communication). But the LFT tests sold before are not valid. Has to be an LFT test sold to you under the new testing regime. But it is physically going to be the same LFT from existing stock. “Yeah, but no, but yeah”(c) Little Britain.

      Note, in the US without local health insurance even LFT will set you back by $190 or so.

      I do find 2-day length before travel onerous, basically you have day before travel to make the test, day of travel — not all countries are equipped with labs in airports.

      • Not Long Now... says:
        7 Dec7 December 10:01

        At least in the short term, many cities (certainly NY, Miami, perhaps LA, probably SFO) have free LFT testing, which provides an email result containing all required information for travel. Pharmacies are also available for PCRs, but at approx $250!

        • Saiz says:
          7 Dec7 December 10:28

          Thanks. None of the tests need to be PCR though, do they? I have some unused day 2 tests from Randox from a trip in November. Can they be used as Day 2 when I return back? I wasn’t aware the ‘old’ ones couldn’t be used.

          • BlueHorizonUK says:
            7 Dec7 December 10:53

            Doesn’t have to be PCR but whatever company you use they need to produce a certificate that can be seen by checkin staff or the VeriFly app.

      • Lyn says:
        7 Dec7 December 15:56

        Testing is supposed to be made available free for people who live in the US, even if they don’t have health insurance. This may not apply to visitors everywhere of course.

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