The HfP chat thread – Monday 6th December

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• Cathy says:

  6 Dec6 December 12:17

  I’m just trying to book a redemption flight online with a voucher that expires on the 24th October 22 for a return journey in November 22 and it returns a message saying outbound travel must take place before your voucher expires. Can anyone please confirm when this changed or whether it is a website error? Thank you.

  • Anna says:

    6 Dec6 December 12:29

    That’s always been the case, you would need your outbound journey to be on or before October 24th.
    Alternatively, book a 1 way RFS with your voucher, cancel for a FTV and your 241 will then be valid until Sep 23. You’ll need to call to redeem it though, which is the downside …

    • Cathy says:

      6 Dec6 December 12:39

      I’ve just realised that but thank you Anna for confirming. Just realised I will need to use another one for this trip and then book something else for a FTV. Doh need to concentrate on either travel or work, not both at the same time!

      • BJ says:

        6 Dec6 December 13:28

        Why not generate the FTV with the October 22 voucher and then use that for the November trip if that voucher has earliest expiration date?

        • Cathy says:

          6 Dec6 December 14:51

          Thank you, I’ve used a newer voucher as I wanted the seats but will book something else low value and then cancel for the FTV. I’ve read about it so many times but just didn’t recollect it when trying to book. I’m putting it down to Monday rather than being stupid!

• Anna says:

  6 Dec6 December 12:27

  New “quarantine hell” stories starting to filter through – looks as though the system is as shambolic this time as it was previously! Not enough hotels so people can’t travel back when they planned, 3 hours on a bus to make a 30 second journey etc. I can’t think of any reason whatsoever for not allowing people to have monitored quarantine in their own homes.

  • TGLoyalty says:

    6 Dec6 December 12:39

    It’s a complete joke.

    This is not learning to live with anything.

    • BJ says:

      6 Dec6 December 13:32

      People voted for the idiots and sadly will do so again…it’s the shambles we need to learn to live with, not covid.

  • Mr(s) Entitled says:

    6 Dec6 December 12:45

    You can’t think of a single reason why monitoring potentially thousands of people in their own homes, wherever they may be, for 240 hours is impractical?

    • Char Char says:

      6 Dec6 December 13:03

      Its about as impractical as introducing hotel quarantine without the hotels being available.

    • Pete M says:

      6 Dec6 December 13:03

      There’s fewer countries on the red list this time round, but there’s also fewer countries where you can go “cleanse” yourself for 10 days, which makes it harder. That said, I still don’t think it makes any economic or mental health sense to put yourself through the UK managed quarantine process…

    • TGLoyalty says:

      6 Dec6 December 13:07

      The point is you don’t have to monitor or police them because most people are law abiding citizens. Hence why you don’t get murdered anytime you get in an argument.

      • The Savage Squirrel says:

        6 Dec6 December 22:17

        Depends which law though. Drive along the motorway at 70 and nobody will overtake you, right? Nobody is ever drunk in public? No cars ever park partly on the pavement? Oh wait.
        Some laws (and quarantine definitely falls into this category) are perceived as more breakable than others….

    • Anna says:

      6 Dec6 December 13:08

      The system is already in place (to monitor offenders) so isn’t stopping and starting. If they can hire G4S staff to guard hotels, they can easily extend the electronic tagging system.

      • Phil W says:

        6 Dec6 December 13:56

        Precisely, and it would be cheaper.

      • Yorkieflyer says:

        6 Dec6 December 14:18

        I’m not sure electronic tagging when you have committed no offence would be acceptable in the lingering remnants of our free society? I for one would strongly oppose such a suggestion

        • Anna says:

          6 Dec6 December 19:01

          I think tagging is marginally less oppressive than locking people inside a building!

      • Lady London says:

        6 Dec6 December 21:54

        The Daily Mail would have a field day Anna.
        “Tagged like criminals” and it’s just quarantine etc.

    • Rob says:

      6 Dec6 December 16:25

      But is it really that hard? We have a large army (150,000 people) doing, frankly, not much at the moment. Allocating 2 soldiers per property doing 12 hour shifts would be manageable, with the same £2000 being paid.

      • Rich says:

        6 Dec6 December 17:44

        Rob you’re quoting the size of the entire armed forces – the army are about half that size and are helping vaccinate, helping repair storm damage, stationed all over the world, are in training etc. they can only do so much and helping out travellers from red list countries surely shouldn’t be added to the list?

        • Gavin says:

          6 Dec6 December 18:20

          A good chunk of the army will be in the Baltic States as a deterrent to the Russian army.

      • Charlie says:

        6 Dec6 December 19:18

        this made me laugh, you sound like my ancient mum !

      • Mike says:

        6 Dec6 December 20:33

        Rob – the regular Army is not 150, 000 – less than half that . And what do you mean not doing anything !!!! Shall I send you a list

  • Char Char says:

    6 Dec6 December 13:01

    How pathetic, when they could have just introduced testing and quarantine at home

  • will says:

    6 Dec6 December 13:13

    When you have community transmission and the policy is (effectively) to allow that to spread, it does seem pretty odd to be mandating quarantine for arrivals from red list countries who’ve tested negative.

    It’s almost as if they want to be able to broadcast to the news that they are doing something without really doing anything.

    It’s binary to me, either it’s a real concern in which case borders shut as soon as you know about it and stay at home orders out until you understand it, or accept it’s here and it’s going to propagate, by all means test people in a sensible way but what we have is a halfway house that won’t actually stop the spread and causes people a lot of problems who are caught up in it.

    21 months on and there’s still not a clear policy of what to do when a concerning development happens.

    • Anna says:

      6 Dec6 December 13:22

      Even the scientists are saying it’s not possible to stop community spread now. The current move seems to be political – Labour is out to discredit the government by saying that they’re not doing enough and the Tories know from past experience that travel restrictions keep the voters happy so science be damned, basically.

      • Geoff 1977 says:

        6 Dec6 December 15:37

        Will of the people? 😉

    • Yorkieflyer says:

      6 Dec6 December 14:19

      I think the government policy is go down the pub, drown your sorrows and spread it about

    • ankomonkey says:

      6 Dec6 December 17:33

      Great comment – completely agree, and in this case it’s here so let’s drop the ridiculous travel testing rules and focus on vaccinating again – one of the few things we did well earlier this year.

      • Geoff 1977 says:

        6 Dec6 December 18:36

        I don’t think the government are reading this page so maybe tell your local MP etc?

  • Geoff 1977 says:

    6 Dec6 December 15:47

    It’s the New normal Anna.

• Olivia says:

  6 Dec6 December 12:28

  Waiting for my PCR test result to return ahead of flight to AUH first thing tomorrow morning with Etihad. Partner’s arrived at 6:30am this morning, mine still pending despite us testing at the same time at the same location….
  Maybe i’m getting slightly stressed out about the situation, but what’s my position if my test result doesn’t arrive, but his has? Is it possible for just myself to be moved to a later flight in the day and partner stays on the original (can go get checked in etc..) – if seats available which there are – and would a charge be applicable? I feel like this is probably a FAQ on this thread so apologies in advance if this has been asked before.

  • Anna says:

    6 Dec6 December 12:44

    Did you have a guaranteed turnaround time (e.g. 3 hours?)

    • Olivia says:

      6 Dec6 December 12:59

      Next day. Took at 5pm yesterday, mine hasn’t arrived yet so there’s still time to play with of course, but just worrying abit.

      • Tom says:

        6 Dec6 December 13:15

        Surely, your results could arrive as late as 22:00 today… at least that is the definition of ‘next day’ that I have seen Covid test providers use. That’s well ahead of your flight tomorrow morning. So why not just wait for your results?

        • Olivia says:

          6 Dec6 December 13:20

          I’m hoping so.. think I’m in the same boat as somebody else on this feed at the moment – haven’t had a holiday for 2 years, going to Abu Dhabi for the F1 finale which is almost unmissable, so honestly just panicking and trying to make sure I cover all bases just in case.

        • Anna says:

          6 Dec6 December 13:23

          I’ve seen some where “next day” means up till midnight – might be worth checking!

• Tracey says:

  6 Dec6 December 12:29

  FTV question. I have a large FTV given for 2 people. Can it be split? A could use it on business travel, but B can’t.

• His Holyness says:

  6 Dec6 December 12:30

  EU Law Q: My boyfriend is a British national but has indefinite leave to remain in an EU Member State (France) per the withdrawal agreement. When he enters Schengen, even to a different MS, his British passport is not stamped by presenting his Residence Card. What I was wondering is, if he travels within Schengen to other MS’s, would be be unlawfully resident if he stayed more than 90 days in total? I wasn’t aware that persons benefitting from with withdrawal agreement had indefinite leave in MS other than the MS of residence?

  • Anna says:

    6 Dec6 December 12:49

    My understanding is that residency rights only apply in the country which awards them, and not the rest of the Schengen area. But if there are no controls at the French borders, how would anyone know how long he has been out of France?

  • Michael C says:

    6 Dec6 December 12:49

    Not through the withdrawal agreement, but a great (Albanian) friend of mine has had indefinite leave in Italy for many, many years, and as you guess in your own case, this “national” leave is only valid for the country in question, not EU-wide.

  • G says:

    6 Dec6 December 12:51

    Not a lawyer; but I would assume if he has ILR in a EU member state the strictures regarding UK citizens do not apply in his particular case.

    I think the first port of call will be to look at how French ILR applies to EU member states before factoring in his British citizenship

    Bon chance!

  • Lady London says:

    6 Dec6 December 12:52

    Yes the position is as you are saying. WA rights only apply to MS country of residence. The 90 day restriction in any 180, still applies to the totality of stay days across any other MS’s.

    Right now it’s a mess with some WA residents’ passports getting stamped when they shouldn’t be. In 2022 new systems come in which mean arrivals and departure dates will be tracked whereas up to now tracking has been relatively relaxed. But what you state is the law and it’s a rolling 180 days.

    • Lady London says:

      6 Dec6 December 13:00

      PS as the permanent partner of someone with WA rights if you’re interested I believe you can still apply to be added as a dependent and have the same rights. Unsure if you had to be the partner, say, for 3 months min. prior to 31dec20 but if you feel strongly about it could be worth looking into. Downside is you (ie you both as a household) become taxable in the relevant country, probably as prime country for this, and for some especially without children your tax bill might increase a lot. You’d have to weigh it up.

      • His Holyness says:

        6 Dec6 December 13:19

        Yes, I wanted to leave out his rights under the Citizenships Directive if he travels with me as I am an EU citizen. On that basis, with a recognised relationship the restrictions wouldn’t apply.

        LL how will they track the dates? No API, and that would only apply for ticketed travel. Or do you mean for entering Schengen, in which case, that is recorded when you cross the border.

        I can’t see the present situation changing unless Schengen is removed and ticketed travel is properly recorded. A TCN with right to reside in an EU MS can remain do as he/she pleases in Schengen.

        • Anna says:

          6 Dec6 December 13:29

          As an EU citizen, your immediate family can enter an EU MS with you (or join you). But as I said before, if your partner starts from France, there’s going to be no record of him entering other Schengen states (unless there are emergency border controls in place).
          I have a friend who is a Spanish resident and doesn’t seem unduly troubled by the 90 day rule!

        • JDB says:

          6 Dec6 December 14:12

          @His Holyness I have no idea of the background to your question, but since France is mentioned, never ever discount the ability of authorities there to know a lot! I know from two specific cases, one involving immigration and the other tax residency that they access a huge range of records to ascertain your whereabouts if they wish. This includes credit cards (including foreign ones, once they know you have used it in France), bank accounts, mobile phone records, internet use, utility bills/usage, ANPR and even street CCTV. Even when travelling by car in the Schengen zone, they will know more precisely than you when you crossed the border. Obviously they aren’t doing all this to everyone on a routine basis (but they do monitor much more than we do here) but if they ever have any cause to take an interest, they will quickly have a full picture.

        • Lady London says:

          6 Dec6 December 22:03

          France got the Snoopers’ Charter agreed whereas it was rejected in the UK. I think the “trial period” runs till 2023. I think it covers anything that was previously lacking in JDB’s list above. If anyone thinks this won’t sneakily be extended and made permanent as to info the authorities will be hoovering up, and as JDB says you’d be surprised what data some European countries will pursue and use that would be unheard of here…

          There is a new European system coming in in 2022 that will track access more closely (I think it’s when the passport is swiped more will be done).. Internal border checks are not unknown and may be caused by events.

  • John says:

    6 Dec6 December 13:45

    “Indefinite leave to remain” is such an English / British concept (it contains the words leave and remain!) The EU does not use such language.

    He is a permanent resident under EU law. The 90 day rule applies in other EU countries. If he wants to spend more than 90 days in another EU country he needs to get a resident permit for that country.

    Being a permanent resident of an EU country is a qualifying criteria to become a resident in another EU country. Some EU countries have quotas for how many EU long residents (from other EU countries) can move there.

    https://ec.europa.eu/immigration/general-information/already-eu_en

  • Track says:

    6 Dec6 December 14:11

    His permanent residence would be for France only.

    Interestingly enough, if he had documents issued to family members while UK was a Member Stay then those family members can move and reside freely in the EU without restrictions (eg 90 days). They would be deemed family members of a EU citizen.

  • James says:

    6 Dec6 December 14:23

    This is interesting. I’m a UK citizen but have a Biometic card for permanent residency in Greece. Only had the card since October. Flew to Poland (from UK) for a long weekend recently and expected passport to be stamped on entry and exit. On swiping my passport something must signify I have residency, albeit in a MS other than Poland. He asked for my biometric, put it on a plate glass scanner and wished me a good trip – no stamp!

    • Pete M says:

      6 Dec6 December 15:06

      JDB, I think you are thinking China there, not France…

      • JDB says:

        6 Dec6 December 15:30

        @Pete M – I can absolutely assure you that the two cases I referred to were in France; the people concerned were also stunned by the information the authorities had obtained. People who are Monaco residents but spend a lot of time in France are also acutely aware of everything I mentioned. I lived in France as a child and again more recently and it didn’t greatly surprise me, nor did it surprise French friends who assume that what used to be called RG are always snooping.

        • Anna says:

          6 Dec6 December 16:02

          But would the French authorities bother notifying any other states that you had left France and might be intending to stay more than 90 days?

        • JDB says:

          6 Dec6 December 16:26

          @Anna – most likely not, unless someone had attracted their attention for any reason. I don’t know the extent to which any French residence permit requires actual residency. The point was really that anybody who assumes that if there are no passport stamps, how does anyone know where you are is sorely mistaken in the modern era. I don’t know how they ever came across it, but when we lived in Paris my Mum edited a newsletter for British & Commonwealth women in Paris. She and the chairman of the association were interviewed by the security services to ascertain if they were subversives as they didn’t like foreign language publications and were then required to submit future editions for approval prior to printing.

        • Anna says:

          6 Dec6 December 19:04

          Slightly different knowing where someone is at a given moment and proving they have been there for more than 90 days. I get your point, though, and they call the UK a police state!

      • Polly says:

        6 Dec6 December 18:15

        Love it, JDB

      • Lady London says:

        6 Dec6 December 22:08

        Nope, France.
        France is not the only one.

        JDB what’s “RG” ?

  • Can says:

    6 Dec6 December 17:39

    Residence cards are country specific. Due to Schengen treaty, he can travel up to a certain amount of days, but he cannot reside, say, in Spain with the French residence card as a non-eu person.
    He can enter Schengen from anywhere, that doesn’t matter as there are no internal borders.

• MCM says:

  6 Dec6 December 12:39

  Anyone have current or recent experience in New York using the NYC Covid Safe app?
  It says show a PCR test in previous 7 days. Does it have to be PCR, or can my pre-flight LFT be used? Or is the Vaccine certificate enough? Not sure how many places require this.
  Also, I’ve ordered Qured pre-flight tests to take with us to NYC from UK. Are these ok for my pre-flights before leaving NYC?
  Many thanks.

  • Rhys says:

    6 Dec6 December 12:46

    What is it used for? When I was there 3 weeks ago all I needed to show was my vaccination certs.

    • MCM says:

      6 Dec6 December 13:16

      Rhys, BA say to have it downloaded for New York. It’s part of their documents section. It indicates for some venues such as restaurants etc, although some may be discretionary.

      • Tim says:

        6 Dec6 December 14:24

        @MCM I was there last week, had to take ID and Covid passes in my Apple Wallet/PDF version, but was never asked for the NY Covid app.

        • MCM says:

          6 Dec6 December 14:52

          Ok, thanks Tim, I wondered how important it would be, but as it says on the BA documents list to have, I didn’t want to ignore it. Cheers.

• elguiri says:

  6 Dec6 December 12:57

  Now a request for opinions on pre-departure tests before coming back to UK. Looking through websites of providers, it looks like you just take a photo of the result (eg project screen by prenetics for £19), do these work well, give results in required timeframes etc?

  • Pete M says:

    6 Dec6 December 13:08

    Yup, have used Prenetics many times. Should be able to find it for £17pp. When it arrives, double check there’s liquid in the testing vial. In terms of deliveries, I ordered a kit yesterday morning and it arrived via DPD this morning. Also recommend taking a bunch of NHS tests with you just in case. They are also now on the Voldemort site.

    • elguiri says:

      6 Dec6 December 14:10

      Sorry for being slow (I blame it on the headache from keeping up with changing rules), what would I be able to use the NHS tests for?

      • Pete M says:

        6 Dec6 December 14:27

        False positives, spilling the liquid, dropping the whole thing, the result being inconclusive…

        • elguiri says:

          6 Dec6 December 14:49

          will they validate an nhs one instead then if for instance their one comes back inconclusive?

      • Yorkieflyer says:

        6 Dec6 December 14:28

        Use the NHS test first to check you’re negative

        • Pete M says:

          6 Dec6 December 14:55

          Yes – my experience is they’re pretty accommodating – ultimately, why not, you’ve already paid them enough…!

        • elguiri says:

          6 Dec6 December 15:01

          Great, thanks for helping and calming my headache !

• Stephan says:

  6 Dec6 December 13:00

  Trying to cancel a booking I made on Amex Travel and have been on the phone for 2h now. Can I use the concierge service from the Platinum card to help get through?

  • FCP says:

    6 Dec6 December 13:46

    Platinum help seems to just pass you to Travel. I am waiting 3 hours now for callback. Not what i expected.

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