Maximise your Avios, air miles and hotel points

The HfP chat thread – Wednesday 24th November

Links on Head for Points may pay us an affiliate commission. A list of partners is here.

We are running this daily chat thread on Head for Points during the coronavirus outbreak.

Historically, the daily ‘Bits’ articles were the de facto repository for random comments and questions.  With the news flow being lighter, we are running fewer ‘Bits’ articles.

The comments under this article are where you should post questions about travel and, indeed, anything else on your mind.

Please only comment under the main articles on the site if your comment is directly related to the topic of the article.  This has long-term benefits as it keeps the commentary relevant for people who read those articles in the future.

Old chat threads are hidden from the HfP home page.  If you want to look for something in an old thread, click here.  This brings up all the articles in our ‘General’ category which includes the chat threads.

Category

General

Comments (448)

This article is closed to new posts. Discussion continues in the HfP Forums.

  • Rossy says:
    24 Nov24 November 07:33

    Yesterday was my creation/IHG black card anniversary, and probably unsurprisingly, despite recently being informed that my card will be cancelled on 3rd December, I was charged a £99 renewal fee, my IHG points weren’t transferred for a second month, and the free night that I qualified for wasn’t credited. I purposely haven’t put anything through the card in the last few days and the balance is clear (minus the £99 fee).
    I assume I’m well within my rights to request that the £99 is refunded, my points are transferred along with the free night? If they refuse is it advised that I go down the route of raising a formal complaint (is it best to do this in writing), and following this go to the FOS if I don’t get anywhere?

    • Blenz101 says:
      24 Nov24 November 08:16

      Pretty much. Although you can save time and log the complaint by phone.

      • jj says:
        24 Nov24 November 08:33

        Begin with a formal complaint in writing/email as that starts the clock ticking on the complaints resolution process and gives you a record of what has happened.

      • SteveJ says:
        24 Nov24 November 09:39

        How do we log a complaint by phone? I don’t trust their secure message in the app as you have no evidence it was ever sent. Is there another way?

        • Aston100 says:
          24 Nov24 November 11:38

          Steve, literally phone them (number on the back of your card is fine).
          Ask to raise a formal complaint.
          They will log it.
          You’ll get an email some time later with a complaints reference number and some generic assumptions about your complaint. Double check this as mine were incorrect.

          • SteveJ says:
            24 Nov24 November 12:12

            Thanks Aston & jj. I really can’t be dealing with calling them, so I will likely just raise a complaint by email.

    • Colin MacKinnon says:
      24 Nov24 November 09:05

      I got my 99 yesterday too!

      Read my post on P6 day before yesterday. Quick phone call gets: Your account is being closed, you are getting nothing. Would you like to make a complaint, I can log it now.

      You are asked what they can do to sort it out. I replied: free night cert or cash for the free night. Others have added points or the 1p a point it would cost to buy from IHG. I will now be asking for a pro-rata refund of the 99 – so about 98.70!

      Email follows a week or so later, as in my post

      • jj says:
        24 Nov24 November 12:13

        Many people have had the same response. There is no point phoning; just raise a formal complaint immediately to get the clock ticking.

        In case it helps, here is my email:

        I am raising a formal complaint in relation to your treatment of my IHG Rewards Premium Credit Card, number xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx.

        I have three issues that need resolution:

        1. Although you have advised me that you are closing my account in December, you applied an annual fee of £99 on 20 November. The annual fee is payable in advance, and it it not reasonable for you to charge me a fee for less than a month’s usage of the card. Please credit my account accordingly.

        2. My October and November statements show that I respectively earned IHG points of x and x. However, the statements show that these have not been transferred to IHG, and I have not received the points in my IHG account. Please transfer the missing points.

        3. I have not yet received my anniversary night voucher despite having met the required minimum spend for the year . Page 5 of my November annual statement shows that I have made purchases of £x in the period.

        [name]
        [address]

        • jj says:
          24 Nov24 November 12:25

          I should have added that Creation has 8 weeks to provide a final response to a complaint. On provision of the final response or, if earlier, after 8 weeks, the complainant has the right to take the compliant to the FOS.

        • Don says:
          24 Nov24 November 15:15

          very useful summary thanks JJ

    • Char Char says:
      24 Nov24 November 09:13

      I asked where my points were, they only replied with I’m not getting points. No explanation and seeing as no Curve involved they have no excuse not that Curve is a reason withhold points anyway.

      If I were you i’d be considering raising a chargeback against this fee as it meets the criteria of service not provided IMO.

      Thankfully got in before JDB comes and says its within terms and conditions.

    • JJ says:
      24 Nov24 November 09:34

      Interestingly they have listed the point earning benefits of the card on this months statements, last months was just a blank page. No mention of not earning points. Despite points not being transferred this or last month.

      How can they still be advertising the points earning benefits whist telling people no points or benefits will be awarded to those who received a letter with one badly worded paragraph closing the account with no other information.

      “ Don’t forget to use your IHG Rewards Club Credit Card for the following benefits:
      • 2 IHG Rewards Club points for every £1 you spend in the UK
      • 4 IHG Rewards Club points for every £1 you spend at any IHG family of
      hotels
      • 4 IHG Rewards Club points for every £1 you spend abroad”

      Print your statements this month while you can, more evidence if needed later.

      • Rui N. says:
        24 Nov24 November 09:51

        Yes, it’s quite funny (or ridiculous!). They can’t for sure now claim that customers had an expectation that no more points would be awarded (which was BS in any case, despite what was said here), when they just sent you an official statement reminding them that they can earn points on their transactions.

      • Anna says:
        24 Nov24 November 09:51

        Some people are still getting the points, just not those of us on the naughty step.
        Colin – I would not be claiming any of the £99 back as this will make it easier for Creation to say well we haven’t made you pay the annual fee therefore we are justified in withholding any points/free nights earned since the closure letter. It’s a much better case to put to the FOS that Creation hasn’t just withheld these benefits without explanation, they are also charging £99 for the privilege.

        • Ben says:
          24 Nov24 November 10:08

          Do we assume that Internet access to our accounts will still be available after 3rd Dec? My statement gets generated at the end of the month so I was hoping to pay it mid December but if I can’t log into the account that’s going to be difficult.

          • TGLoyalty says:
            24 Nov24 November 10:16

            Yup closed my white card as soon as the letter dropped and I still have limited functionality in the app

        • Rui N. says:
          24 Nov24 November 10:10

          How is the fact that some people are still getting the points revelant? The statement is for my account, not for any other account that is not being closed.

          • Anna says:
            24 Nov24 November 11:21

            It was a reply to JJ’s observation about Creation still advertising the card and benefits, simmer down …

          • Rui N. says:
            24 Nov24 November 11:32

            But JJ was mentioning that in the context of receiving the statement with said advertisment. It was not a general advertisment to everyone.

          • Rui N. says:
            24 Nov24 November 13:39

            (I also have the same language in my statement, BTW. Just with adjusted earning rates for the white card. Creation did not tell me that they would not award me points though – but neither they have transferred them.)

          • Roy says:
            25 Nov25 November 00:15

            I imagine it probably was a general advert to everyone, that appeared on all statements, rather than being targeted…

      • Lady London says:
        24 Nov24 November 11:23

        What do Creation know that we don’t? I am at a loss to understand how Creation thinks they can get away with this

        Are they assuming that the poor consumer peotection standards of their homeland, which is France, apply? If so then they are sadly mistaken.

        Or do they really know something we don’t? Are they about to fail financially, and they know taking them to the FOS, MCOLing them for breach of contract, complaints to the FCA??(not Treating Customers Fairly which us a Thing in financial services they are required to do)…will all take a few months, and is Creation so desperate to end the year with extra cash that they’re just saying “So sue us then” to delay having to provide the value of all the card benefits till next year after they get sued/FOS’d/reported?

        I really want to see Creation’s nose rubbed in it. But wonder as their stance is so ridiculous, what are we missing

        • Anuj says:
          24 Nov24 November 11:53

          “poor consumer protection standards of their homeland” Given that we have only recently left the EU, I doubt the protections in France are any worse than in the UK

          • Lady London says:
            24 Nov24 November 12:21

            They’re worse. Trust me.

            In the very long future, if I have enough energy I may even become the Lady London of France.

        • andyT says:
          24 Nov24 November 12:14

          I expect that Creation know far more than you and all the other bar room lawyers posting on this site know.

          • Rui N. says:
            24 Nov24 November 12:21

            You expect wrong. They are not even able to maintain their story straight and claim that their letter said a lot of stuff that is not in there. We also had a case of someone here that last year took them to the FOS and won after Creation told a bunch of lies in the process. Damn, just on this thread we are seeing that Creation is telling customers to use their cards to get points after telling those exact same customers that they will not earn any more points by using their cards!

          • Anna says:
            24 Nov24 November 13:38

            What’s a bar room lawyer, an alcoholic version of a barrack-room one? 😂

          • mvcvz says:
            24 Nov24 November 18:08

            Exactly.

        • JDB says:
          24 Nov24 November 12:36

          @LL the FCA doesn’t take individual complaints. The FOS will report any specific conduct issues it comes across to the FCA. You mention MCOL – the Civil Procedures Rules (shown in a link to the MCOL guidance notes) say you should use other procedures first – i.e. FOS (it just lists ombudsmen). Otherwise, you are at risk of your case not being considered or being at risk of costs which you otherwise wouldn’t be. Finally, the overall reasons why the point is being missed (and thus how complaints should be framed) are always shot down in flames, so no point in repeating!

          • Char Char says:
            24 Nov24 November 12:56

            It is easy to give reasons as to why the points aren’t credited, what people want is the reasons as to why they should have been.

        • JDB says:
          24 Nov24 November 12:38

          @Ll sorry to be so late to the Creation party, but still in Mexico, 6 hours behind, booked a long time ago to return on Creation day.

        • Char Char says:
          24 Nov24 November 12:55

          The IHG card has been a joke from the start, lose money on points and then let it be paid off with a credit card, to their misleading advertising about when the free night will be credited, to the now closing of accounts.

          I think for them to be reasonable and show that they have any standard of customer care is asking too much, I expect many people will get nothing and accept the way they will be treated and then they will pay out a small amount to the ones that moan a lot, which is probably cheaper than being reasonable in the first place.

        • Dilbert says:
          24 Nov24 November 13:13

          LL this is exactly what I’ve been wondering from the beginning. Their CS might be poor but I can’t believe they haven’t got some well paid, well educated people advising them on this. They must be sat on a winning hand. Maybe I’m wrong. I guess we’ll see soon enough.

        • David says:
          24 Nov24 November 14:28

          I’m hypothesising they know IHG will close rewards accounts of those impacted by this, and so why bother transferring points (which cost them money etc) and free night certificates.
          We know from Rob that IHG have it logged in people’s reward accounts for those who are impacted by this.
          We know from rewards club T&Cs that they can withdraw points or close accounts for misuse of accounts and points accrual (all very widely defined) with very little if any comeback. This was raised by me and JDB at the beginning of this saga and either ignored or mocked by other commentators here, though caught a little bit of traction a few days ago.
          At the start, I was thinking this would be very unlikely, now thinking about Creation’s approach to this, I’m sadly expecting it.

          • SteveJ says:
            24 Nov24 November 14:41

            @David where/when was this mentioned “We know from Rob that IHG have it logged in people’s reward accounts”?

          • David says:
            24 Nov24 November 14:48

            Rob advised in a response to a thread about this shortly after notification and when comments here went mad that IHG customer service staff has been appraised/briefed about Creations decision to close card accounts and of where to look in their account records to see a note about it.
            I’m not hunting for it now, though feel free yourself if you don’t believe me. It was definitely said.

          • Rob says:
            24 Nov24 November 16:11

            No, I said that I’d been sent the memo that Creation call centre staff had been given which told them how to deal with callers.

          • Rui N. says:
            24 Nov24 November 14:53

            I guess you missed the conversation above where it is discussed that Creation has been telling people that they can earn points on their account still.

          • David says:
            24 Nov24 November 15:05

            I guess you have greater faith in Creation customer services staff than you usually let on.

          • Rui N. says:
            24 Nov24 November 15:13

            How exactly is that relevant? Are you saying that now even what a company tells its customers is not relevant in a regulator’s decision? Wow (or probably LOL).
            I don’t know why there are even regulators and law (I know, I know, asking companies to comply with the law is “petty”). Companies can just make stuff as they go along, don’t tell customers anything, if they tell you something it also doesn’t matter, customers should know that is common sense to know that companies don’t need to tell you anything, etc., etc. It’s a perfect robber baron world out there (except not even during that era it worked like that).

          • David says:
            24 Nov24 November 15:18

            I don’t know what you’re talking about, it’s comes across as conjecture, opinion or nonsense (what has ‘the regulator got to do with IHG chosing to close some accounts, for example). I’ve presented an argument/view based on known facts and reasoned thinking about questions posed here (why is Creation taking the stance it is). I hope it’s wrong, but to be so definite in your own thinking It’s exceptionally naive IMO.

          • Char Char says:
            24 Nov24 November 15:56

            “Terms and conditions!”*
            *JDB shouts over to David on the other side of the room in a Birmingham accent

          • Rui N. says:
            24 Nov24 November 16:01

            Char char, unless the T&Cs don’t say anything on a specific matter, then “common sense” (always in favour of Creation, never the customer) applies. Creation then contradicts that “common sense”? No worries, customer service can make a mistake, so the customer is still wrong (you know the old adage “the customer is always wrong”).
            IHG will also close your accounts. When and why haven’t they done so already if that was their plan all along? Because reasons.

          • Char Char says:
            24 Nov24 November 16:23

            @RUI
            I agree with your comments, I was imagining where David was getting his comments from!

          • Dilbert says:
            24 Nov24 November 16:49

            That’s an interesting angle David, that is starting to look depressingly plausible.

          • Char Char says:
            24 Nov24 November 17:38

            Creation not crediting points is clearly because they don’t want to spend anymore money and doesn’t need to be related to IHG closing accounts. Creation and IHG haven’t been able to credit nights or communicate between themselves for many people legitimately, so to suddenly be able to orchestrate all this is far fetched.

          • Char Char says:
            24 Nov24 November 17:40

            As Rob has just said David’s comment was factually incorrect, David and his mate JDB probably at the local pub in Solihull right now with a copy of the terms and conditions

          • Rui N. says:
            24 Nov24 November 17:47

            At most, IHG is upset because Creation will not buy points anymore for people that did thousands of pounds per month of spending. The cases where IHG closed accounts were because of taking advantage of IHG promotions, it had nothing to do with credit cards.
            If IHG started to care about MS (why exactly? not wanting more money from selling points?), they would have plenty to have fun with in the US, where there is real MS on multiple avenues going on, on credits cards with actual valuable earning rates (IHG cards with sign-up bonus of 150k points, churnable after a period of time, and offering up to 10 points per dollar spent).

          • Rui N. says:
            24 Nov24 November 17:52

            And yes, of course IHG can now come and start closing accounts left and right (still don’t understand why they would care). But if they were supposedly informed right away, why didn’t they act right away? Doesn’t make any sense.
            And if Creation asked IHG to close accounts after Creation receives a complaint (like some suggested here), that of course is a retaliatory tactic that no regulator or court would take lightly.

          • JDB says:
            24 Nov24 November 19:17

            @Char Char I’m afraid you are way off the money on this one. I’m sorry you can’t join me for a drink in Solihull tonight as I am still some 6,000 miles away on the Pacific. Coast of Mexico, but will gladly buy you a mezcal cocktail on the beach this evening but lunch now beckons.

          • Roy says:
            25 Nov25 November 00:28

            IHG would probably be within their rights to close accounts of those who earned points through MS, but I’d struggle to see how they could justify closing accounts of those who only used Curve for Apple Pay/Google Pay, and never did anything untoward. Or in one case someone who linked their card to Curve but never even made any Curve transactions!

            My guess is that unless you’ve been section 12’d it’s just a commercial decision that they don’t want you as a customer, but they don’t care enough about you to go to the effort of digging for evidence of actual wrongdoing – without which IHG wouldn’t have grounds to close your account. No guarantee they won’t go digging in at least some Section 14 cases, of course…

        • Roy says:
          25 Nov25 November 00:37

          My guess is that in most cases what will actually happen will be far more reasonable than what customer services have been telling people. They are probably still investigating some accounts and don’t want to risk having customer services overpromise (which could be used against them in a FOS complaint) so are deliberately underpromising in all cases.

  • Waddle says:
    24 Nov24 November 07:39

    Am I right in thinking that the Arrivals Lounge at T5 is only for Gold members and arriving passengers travelling Club World? So no luck for Silver or Club Europe?

  • Paul Pogba says:
    24 Nov24 November 07:48

    New Zealand to open its borders to aliens from 30 April 2022: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/new-zealand-announces-border-re-opening-plan/8656d4eb-fc20-4cd5-9c8e-f4dd065831af

    • Joe says:
      24 Nov24 November 08:20

      But still 7 days quarantine required…

    • Froggee says:
      24 Nov24 November 08:42

      I think we should crowdfund to send Polly so she can test the waters for us.

      • Anna says:
        24 Nov24 November 09:54

        With a stopover in Singapore 🤦🏻‍♀️
        Hopefully she’s currently resting in the hotel she was supposed to be in !

      • Polly says:
        24 Nov24 November 11:01

        Ha ha! as Anna says, in the right hotel now, on the right balcony, glass of champers in hand, after a coolish swim! So pleased to be out!

        • Anna says:
          24 Nov24 November 11:22

          Thank goodness, Polly! I hope you’re going to do one of those “My Holiday Hell” spreads in The Sun 😂

        • Lady London says:
          24 Nov24 November 11:31

          Did you see the detailed reports yet Polly? Will your insurer share them? I am assuming the medics of your insurance company cannot be refused them by SIN?

          To know whatever SIN was using in the detail of your negative tests to retain you, would be very interesting.

          Wel done the HfP One for getting released.

          • Polly says:
            24 Nov24 November 18:06

            LL

            Not a chance, as l mentioned earlier. Insurers accepted it without a murmur… maybe not the 1st claim? But just said send us all the receipts when you get a chance. Even when l said no reports.. usually they fight for that evidence… strange times..
            Lovely day today, so thankful.

            Anna,

            Don’t think l could bear the hassle of a hell holiday spread, just want to alert people tho… as Rob says, hopefully the 50k readership on here are aware now, and might advise friends and family. That’s all we can hope for.

        • Blenz101 says:
          24 Nov24 November 12:01

          Enjoy!

  • Mark says:
    24 Nov24 November 08:10

    e-voucher question. BA go to great lengths to say this is different to a future travel voucher and just effectively freezes the avios and cash used on a ticket ready to be used in future. Out of interest does anyone know if an e-voucher can be used in conjunction with a 241 voucher?

  • Mike says:
    24 Nov24 November 08:11

    I called creation yesterday to complain about the £99 fee they charged me a couple days ago even though they are closing my account next week and they credited the fee back immediately , when I complained about the missing points they said it’s IHG I need to speak to !

  • Michael AC says:
    24 Nov24 November 08:39

    Bit of a confusing one that is resolved now, but I’m curious as to what happened.

    Flying with BA to New York in F, saw that my booking only contained my outbound flight and had no trace of my return. I waited a few days because I thought maybe it would be resolved by the IT issues being fixed later. Checked again, still no return flight. So I called You First and they confirmed that my return flight had changed and that I would have missed my existing connecting flight. They changed it for me, all is well again.

    Question is, were they ever going to tell me? I’d have panicked if I hadn’t checked until I was about to leave and saw I had no return. I saw some people on Flyertalk had a similar issue but in other cases I’ve always been contacted when this happened.

    • meta says:
      24 Nov24 November 09:07

      I had a similar issue. If I didn’t check, I would have showed up at the airport. If it is within 14 days of travel, you’re entitled to EU compo as well. BA promptly paid it after I sent the letter.

    • ChrisC says:
      24 Nov24 November 09:59

      Yes they would have told you but it’s not always instant especially if the flight isn’t until someway off.

      And if there is a connection the system will try and resolve any issues with those before mailing you.

  • Anthony says:
    24 Nov24 November 09:14

    I’ve got a 2-4-1 that was triggered after the 1st of September that is now in a FTV, how can I check the extra availability that this type of 2-4-1 should have?

    • Rob says:
      24 Nov24 November 09:32

      You can’t.

      • Anthony says:
        24 Nov24 November 12:15

        Do you think BA will honour the extra availability that a new 2-4-1 should offer? Could I not search for cash seats in a certain fare class?

        • Anna says:
          24 Nov24 November 13:44

          How have you ended up with a new-style 241 in an FTV, it should have been valid longer than the FTV anyway?
          I suspect BA might not be able to see the extra availability unless they unpack the 241 from the voucher – have you considered asking for the whole thing to be refunded?

          • Anthony says:
            24 Nov24 November 14:35

            I had to cancel a reward booking, the options were a cash refund minus £35pp or take a FTV, I’m assuming I can use the FTV to pay for another reward booking

      • Roy says:
        25 Nov25 November 00:47

        If it’s know which fare classes the 2-4-1 gives access to then presumably Expert Flyer would tell you (for a cost, of course).

    • AJA says:
      24 Nov24 November 15:25

      What does it show in BAEC e-vouchers? Used 2-4-1s appear there with their expiry dates. If it shows 30 months then you can still have that if you ever manage to unwind the FTV. As it is within the FTV you will have an expiry date of Sep 2023 which is until when FTVs are valid.

  • davef says:
    24 Nov24 November 09:24

    IHG says estimated points for my next trip will be 87152 for the stay. Has anyone else seen a crazy number like this and did it credit?
    It’s 700 euro with triple points, and a 10k stay bonus and I’m platinum. So my estimate is around 36k points.

    • ChrisC says:
      24 Nov24 November 10:02

      No it won’t credit. Their system sometimes throws errors up.

      And their system only tells you base points and status points when it shows you the estimate. It won’t show any points due to promos etc

This article is closed to new posts. Discussion continues in the HfP Forums.

New to Head for Points?

Welcome!  We’re the UK’s most-read source of business travel, Avios, frequent flyer and hotel loyalty news. Let us improve how you travel. Learn more on our About page.

VAA

Latest comments

Latest Forum Posts

Get 30,000 points bonus with American Express Platinum

Amex Gold

Check reward flight availability instantly for free!

See a whole year of reward seat availability on one page at SeatSpy.com

Booking a luxury hotel?

Our luxury hotel booking service offers you GUARANTEED extra benefits over booking direct. Works with Four Seasons, Mandarin Oriental, The Ritz Carlton, St Regis and more. We've booked £1.3 million of rooms to date. Click for details.

Get 20,000 bonus points and your first year free with American Express Gold

Amex Gold