The HfP chat thread – Friday 5th November

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Anna says:

5 Nov5 November 07:10

Considering private sixth form – are there any tax/points opportunities? They state direct debit but I imagine they would accept card payments (and possibly a discount), especially if we’re offering to pay for a year up front?
- Yuff says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 07:57
  
  It’s very hard to get any tax write offs with school fees from my advice from my accountants.
  Thought about paying them, the kids, a salary but Accountants advised against it. £25k tax free towards the fees would have been nice.
  I’ve been paying fees with Revolut for years via card and bank transfers with no issues.
  - TGLoyalty says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 08:38
    
    Tbh paying them c£1k a month wouldn’t have been bad, take advantage of the tax and NI free allowances. The rest would still be subject to all the usual employer and employee taxes so probably not much of a saving vs taking it yourself.
    
    Ofcourse only if they had no plans to work part time and use the c£12k personal allowance themselves.
    
    Perhaps using a trust might be tax efficient but would have to plan for that well in advance I suspect?
- ATP says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 07:59
  
  Hi Anna, Might differ from each school but my children’s’ day school never accepted anything but direct debit or cheque. Even with the option of prepayment, at best they would reduce the bill by £50-100 a term, but when the fees are £23k/year that doesn’t help much! And nor did it feel worth it to prepay for such small amounts. University on the other hand accepted everything inc Amex!
  
  As a tax consultant myself, I was never able to find any opps, however this is probably dependent on individual circumstance.
- Froggee says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:07
  
  Set up a family investment company with different classes of shares for each member of the family. Make sure the kids subscribe for the shares using money they have earned themselves or at least been given by a relative that is not a parent. This is key. Do all your investment in the family investment company. Dividends received are free of corporation tax in the company. The family investment company can then pay different dividends to each class of shareholder so your kids can receive tax free dividends up to their personal allowance with no further tax payable. This can then be used to pay their school fees. It’s a bit of a faff and tends to work best if you’re a higher rate taxpayer and you’re investing £1m+ but you did ask!
  - Mr. AC says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 08:25
    
    Wow. Thank you for a window into a different world!
  - Froggee says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 09:03
    
    oops – missed another key point. The parents lend their money into the company at 0% interest rate. Effectively dividends can then be reinvested within the company with no further tax due. So you’re transferring income from parents to children. It can get tricky when you want to wind up the company as corporation tax is paid on capital gains in the company and you can then be liable for further taxation but taking large pension contributions out (instead of salary) during the life of the company reduces tax paid on gains. HMRC set up a unit to investigate these structures and concluded they are totally legitimate* so fill your boots everybody.
    
    *please note I am not a practicing accountant and therefore don’t do anything based upon this advice until you have paid thousands of pounds of professional fees!
    - pointsarb says:
      
      5 Nov5 November 10:03
      
      @Froggee, i’m looking to implement something very similar to what you have described and wondered if you could share your tax advisor’s details either on here or privately please? Cheers
      - Froggee says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 10:09
        
        Soz but I just like reading about this sort of stuff. The Financial Times has covered it in reasonable depth and a bit of googling saw it all make sense to me. If you google “family investment companies” then there are a whole host of articles on it generally written by mid-sized accountancy firms. Any of them would be delighted to take your business!
      - Genghis says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 10:19
        
        https://www.finumus.com/blog/the-family-investment-company-ltd
      - Froggee says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 10:43
        
        The point missed in that article is if children buy shares with their own money not gifted by a parent then it is likely not going to be considered income shifting. No income has been shifted. If the parent gifts them shares then it definitely would be income shifting. This sort of stuff is tricky hence the need for proper advice and even with proper advice HMRC can get nasty as we saw with Employees Benefit Trust arrangements. As always, your mileage may vary.
  - Mjshort says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 12:00
    
    Obviously you might have some CGT issues on transferring investments into the company.
    - Froggee says:
      
      5 Nov5 November 19:06
      
      You lend cash. Rich people tend to have cash.
- Jason says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:12
  
  I spoke to them Monday I was advised to go st8 to the ombudsman if I wasn’t happy, they confirmed, no more points, free night or fee refund. I have opened my ombudsman complaint.
  - Lady London says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 08:38
    
    Ombudsman toothless, takes ages, overwhelmed. Like CEDR, danger of some insufficient decisions where later court provides a more useful form of redress.
    
    If you’ve operated the account within the t’s and c’s that were duly notified to you (ie 60 days notice before Creation’s actions changed on your account, eg withdrawal of points awars, to match any new or revised terms that they had notified), then I wouldn’t hang around I would mcol for the loss on breach of contract once the loss has crystallised. I.e.wait till the closure then you will know how much you’ve lost.
    
    Remember your contract with each card company is unique to you. If someone else has had terms notified to them correctly and you didn’t then your contract different. If another person has done something with their account that Creation thinks gives them an excuse to deny that other person something that was promised in the contract, that’s their contract, your contract is separate and that does not give Creation the right to deny your benefits.
    
    I’m sharpening my knife and fork. If I had a Creation card my claims would be filed on rth December (assuming I’d had a final answer from Creation of ‘no’, had tried 3 times or tried to get the right answer for 8 weeks.
    - JDB says:
      
      5 Nov5 November 12:31
      
      @LadyLondon the Civil Procedure Rules make it quite clear you should first use other statutory remedies, specifically ombudsmen where these are available. You would need to have a very good reason to give to the court to go there first unless you want to compromise your case and be at risk of costs. Not my view – explicit in MCOL guidance for claimants and the link to the CPR. Essentially, the courts absolutely don’t want to be clogged up with lots of small claims that can better be dealt with by a specialist ombudsman. The delays, per on recent poster look about the same.
      - ken says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 14:13
        
        The other advantage of the Ombudsman scheme is that it will consider matters of fairness as well as law.
        
        A court will only consider matters of law.
        
        One (possible) argument is that in law points have no value, so what is the redress if they have not been awarded ?
        However, clearly Creation are treating customers unfairly here.
      - Lady London says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 17:13
        
        I take your point JDB but I am but an innocent and mcol (small claims court) is just about all I’ve ever heard of. Matters of principle that might concern a whole mindustry are far above me and not mine to tackle.
        
        All I know is I had things promised to me in writing, I’ve fulfilled my part of what was required but the other party I signed the deal with has changed his mind and has told me they don’t want to give me what we agreed I would receive if I fulfilled my part. That’s breach of contract, I don’t care about solving other people’s problems I’m off to MCOL.
        
        If I’m public spirited and think there’s a general issue I might or might not bother to go to an ombudsman but actually I’ve got a contract and it’s been broken so I’ll just deal with that. Small claims court is for people like me that are not able to afford to have a lawyer so that’s where I will ask for help to get what I was promised and did my bit for
- Tracey says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:25
  
  IME a year up front won’t be very enticing. 7 years up front when they start year 7, at age 11, would move the dial but not by enough to make it worth the risk.
  - Anna says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 09:01
    
    Maybe in normal times, but after the pandemic they are desperate for paying customers. Don’t forget this is the north where private education is very much the exception. Fortunately we’ve had 5 years free at an outstanding state school so only looking at Year 12 and 13 to cover!
    - John says:
      
      5 Nov5 November 09:07
      
      I live in the north. Never received more than £100 off from a top boys school for paying up front and paid private school fees for both sons from 3 – 18.
      Also would only accept cheque or direct debit,
      - Anna says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 09:31
        
        This school has had to massively increase its intake and offer 50% off fees to the highest performers at GCSE (unlikely to apply to us, sadly!) It’s definitely not a top school academically but it’s 5 minutes away from us and has the kind of learning support facilities my son needs.
      - Marie says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 09:34
        
        Managed 2.5% discount for full year fees upfront .Stacks with second child and second child on bus discount as well as scholarships.
      - Anna says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 09:40
        
        Just called the finance office and they offer a 4% discount for paying up front plus they are going to be accepting Amex from next year due to multiple enquiries from parents. Just need him to get accepted now … !
    - Jill (Kinkell) says:
      
      5 Nov5 November 09:52
      
      Paid several years up front, plus discount for more than 1 child ( actually had 3 boarding at same time for a year) Well worth it for us plus youngest was a day pupil for last 2 years….drove himself to school in time for breakfast, stayed all day, plus prep time, drove home at 10 pm. From his point of view , slept in his own bed! Lie in on Sundays and no Chapel. Chatted last night with oldest boy who is now a teacher at his old school ( couldn’t have been that bad!) and he’s absolutely certain he would not have achieved University and a PhD if left in the state system. ( dyslexic)
      This was in 90’s so no points earning opportunities….just an ‘old fashioned ‘ cheque!.
      - Anna says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 10:43
        
        Thanks Jill, yes he’s a bright boy but struggles with ASD and dyspraxia. I got my BA and PhD after 7 years in an independent school so know very well the benefits it can bring and the smaller classes and extra support are exactly what he needs.
Jonathan says:

5 Nov5 November 07:12

I received the cancellation letter from creation for my ihg card. I’ve unfortunately misplaced it, would anyone mind posting a redacted copy for me please? TIA
- Genghis says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 07:17
  
  “We’re cancelling your card”
  - BSI1978 says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 07:32
    
    😅
  - TGLoyalty says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 07:49
    
    Mine actually said
    
    “Alright Love,
    
    Under clause 14 of our T&Cs yoire being given 60 days notice. Your cards being cancelled from Dec 3rd because we don’t like the fact you’re pulled our pants down.
    
    Cheers
    
    Billy the intern”
    
    There also seems to be some hidden meaning / text in there they meant to tell us but never did
- Anna says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:03
  
  We’ve got 3, you’re welcome to have one of them! Can’t add much to the posts above though.
- Lady London says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 09:11
  
  Stable. Horse. Gone.
  Whipping the innocent stable boy that’s left.
  - BuildBackBetter says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 10:53
    
    +100!
Grimz says:

5 Nov5 November 07:25

BA cancelled a leg of my booking on 2nd December back from San Diego. I want to rebook for 5 – 22nd Nov 22. Can I let BA know I won’t be travelling and will call back early December to rebook when my flights will be available.
- Louise K says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:14
  
  Best call them and ask, although you may run into issues with ticket validity.
Joe says:

5 Nov5 November 07:28

Qantas restarting A380 flights to London from April.
- Andrew says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 07:47
  
  Fingers crossed the lounge reopens then – I’ve missed their cocktails and flat white coffees.
  - QFFlyer says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 08:30
    
    QF lounge at LHR reopens sometime in December, apparently (per the QF website).
    - Rhys says:
      
      5 Nov5 November 08:43
      
      QF is already flying to London now so the lounges will probably open before the A380s come back in April.
Mark Peterborough says:

5 Nov5 November 07:50

I forgot to ask this on page 1.

What are people’s thoughts please on the best email to use to contact creation to file my initial complaint regarding cancellation and loss of benefits?
- Rachel Robinson says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:14
  
  Customercare@creation.co.uk
  - Ian_H says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 08:43
    
    Its also worth copying your complaint to IHG themselves and highlighting the reputational damage to their brand, after the card had successfully served its purpose in making you more loyal to IHG Hotels. CompanySecretariat@ihg.com
    - Anna says:
      
      5 Nov5 November 09:03
      
      I did this – got a response which suggested that they don’t really know what’s going on – that I would get my free night at the end of the card year and that I should speak to Creation about any issues with the account!
      - Mark Peterborough says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 09:13
        
        Thank you everybody for all of the replies .
      - Ian_H says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 11:11
        
        Thats interesting, I havent had my reply from IHG yet but I will follow up with them if they send a similar reply.
        
        I’ve switched all my business to Hilton now, and have been spire elite for years (not through CC spend) the whole episode is shabby and disproportionate.
      - JDB says:
        
        5 Nov5 November 12:36
        
        The CEO of IHG knew about this at the same time as the senior people at BNP.
- QFFlyer says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:32
  
  https://www.creation.co.uk/about-us/customer-care
  
  This form. You get an auto response and they have been following up on them (with a holding response, but they’re still being received).
Ryanfozzie says:

5 Nov5 November 07:56

Crystal ball time….

Planning a trip to the east coast over Christmas / New Year. Have I missed the boat on sales or would you expect some sales to launch on the 8th as some sort of celebration?
- Anna says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:06
  
  Whereabouts on the east coast? Scarborough? Hull?
  - Ryanfozzie says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 08:13
    
    Ha, well played.
    
    For clarification, as much as Christmas in Hull would be nice, I’m specifically referring to flights to the east coast of America (New York etc)
  - Rob says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 10:12
    
    Downcliffe House in Filey is criminally underrated as a plush sea-front hotel ….
    - Anna says:
      
      5 Nov5 November 10:44
      
      Who needs New Year’s Eve in Times Square when you’ve got Filey 🤣
  - andyT says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 16:01
    
    I was thinking Skeggy!
    - Rob says:
      
      5 Nov5 November 17:14
      
      Skegvegas ….
- Andrew says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:13
  
  The airlines are like sofa shops – always on sale these days. Just keep an eye on their websites/emails.
- Mirp says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 14:11
  
  BA use to do a sale on Black Friday to fill seats over Christmas. (As business travel was down during that period) Good chance they will do it again as leisure travel is the bulk of bookings to the US right now.
JohnT says:

5 Nov5 November 07:56

Heading to Hilton Geneva next week for 3 nights. Any special recommendations for sightseeing please? Have seen trips on the lake and a few museums!
- Anna says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:11
  
  The trip on the lake was nice when we did it, but it was July and 35C! It might be less so when it’s cold, there were a few mansions to see, including the one where Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein. The fountain is stunning, but is close to shore anyway, and the best view was when we flew in at night.
  If I was going again I would definitely visit Cern laboratory, if it’s open to the public now, I had problems with their website last time and couldn’t pre-book tickets.
  I recall everything was very expensive!
- Will says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:16
  
  What’s the covid rules for heading to french alps via Geneva airport(Swiss)? 2 sets of forms??
  - JohnT says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 09:55
    
    Think you just exit out into French side?
- John says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 08:18
  
  Montreux
  - Cranzle says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 08:42
    
    100% agree, lovely place.
- Jill (Kinkell) says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 10:01
  
  Get a train to Lausanne and go to the Olympic museum….. really interesting. We ended up staying far longer than expected. .
  There’s a cable car up a mountain nearby…..cant remember all details . Hotel were great at advice for sights. Decided to visit the Philipe Patek watch museum… only to find it shut on the day. ( careless planning!)Enjoy the trip.
  - John says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 15:24
    
    Switzerland has hundreds of cable cars (and rack railways, funiculars, whatever) up many mountains, some of them are even included in regular transport tickets.
    
    I’ve done about 20, one day I will do every single one that is open to the public and not a complete ripoff
- memesweeper says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 10:44
  
  If you like science, visit CERN
  
  https://visit.cern/welcome
James says:

5 Nov5 November 08:02

Not sure if its been covered, but Marriott have a 45% bonus offer on Points at the moment.
- Anna says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 10:47
  
  Normally I’d consider this but with dynamic pricing coming in I’m probably going to burn my stash in the new year and use Hilton more as they seem to have a wider range of hotels which I would normally stay in.
  - James says:
    
    5 Nov5 November 12:18
    
    Im burning all mine in December then will stick to Hilton too. Their 100% bonus offers are far more generous, too.
- Kevin C says:
  
  5 Nov5 November 11:10
  
  Very good news if you want to buy them to see Steps perform at the O2.