The HfP chat thread – Saturday 30th October

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• Will says:

  30 Oct30 October 11:17

  Also still missing from Monday first spend

• John says:

  30 Oct30 October 11:20

  Any likelihood of BA introducing a system to convert FTVs into proper eVouchers? Last time I tried to use a FTV (cabin upgrade on Avios booking by phone) I was told it couldn’t be used for payment of the additional fee/charges. It was the “wrong type of cash” FTV apparently. From memory, the voucher contains cash co-payments on avios bookings and possibly seat fees too.

  • Will says:

    30 Oct30 October 11:33

    Smoke and mirrors. You get cut off whilst you process the complexities of using the FTV. Anyone know if FTV (incl 241) is used but some cash remains (no avios) does the cash get reissued as a evoucher or another painful FTV?

    • Nick says:

      30 Oct30 October 11:36

      @Will residual cash amounts have been issued on EMDS e-vouchers since the very beginning. They were actually the first to be issued as the technology and standards already existed. As mentioned above, it’s vouchers containing Avios that can’t be moved.

    • Tom says:

      30 Oct30 October 16:53

      BA actually gave me my ‘change’ from my FTV (I swapped club flights to LAX for flights to TFS) as cash and redeposited the avios. Thank God I don’t have to call BA again..

  • Nick says:

    30 Oct30 October 11:34

    Most (not all) cash FTVs have already been converted. For ones relating to Avios bookings, it’s actually not a question for BA. e-vouchers have to follow IATA accounting standards for EMDs, and these can’t accept points as a currency. For this to change, all 300+ IATA airlines would have to agree a series of new technical standards to allow it, before it’s implemented in practice.

• Andrew says:

  30 Oct30 October 11:27

  I’m finding all the Amex offers quite slow at the moment – different offers and different accounts, all taking about a week from the transaction posting.

• Tw33ty says:

  30 Oct30 October 11:37

  I done Morrison’s and craft gin club on the 24th
  Only gin club has come off so far.

  Last Morrison’s offer took a couple off weeks to credit my account.

• TJ says:

  30 Oct30 October 11:50

  Sitting in the Concord Lounge…it’s been a while since I was last here and there’s been a noticeable drop in service levels. It’s obviously less busy than the Galleries Lounge but I actually prefer ordering via a QR code rather than trying to flag down a waiter. Hopefully things will improve.

  • Andrew says:

    30 Oct30 October 12:50

    *Concorde

  • Babyg says:

    30 Oct30 October 13:55

    I do wish BA would keep the QR code ordering in all lounges.. so much nicer just sitting down and getting proper table service

    • Jill (Kinkell) says:

      30 Oct30 October 14:07

      I’m thoroughly enjoying being waited on in F lounge! I like the QR code style. First flight in a year.

• Backpacker says:

  30 Oct30 October 11:53

  Hello all, looking for a bit of advice please, don’t shoot me for asking what others may have previously… 🙂

  I booked a Business class avois flight for me and my son to SYD in Jan 21, for 250K avois and £1,600 tax, using a companion voucher. BA cancelled the flight twice.
  When I called to re-book, they said that as the companion voucher expired 1 Nov 2021, I was more limited in options. Although they agreed “I can book on any flight, no need for Avios availability”, they also said “the option of rebooking it for free can only be done within the voucher validity. The voucher on your booking is valid till 01 November 2021.
  Or you can call us, opt for a voucher and then rebook till 30th September 2023. The seats will have to be Avios seats when rebooking.
  The vouchers are available to book, fly and return by 30th September 2023. You cannot request a refund on the voucher. Avios/Fare and tax difference is applicable when rebooking, if any”

  Looks like a massive downgrade for me – I would have to be calling at midnight each night trying to get 2 avois seat availability, they tell me if I can’t find Avios availability to SYD (seats in winter are very rare) I lose the money and avios.
  Also, if the avios and/or taxes increase, I have to pay more..

  Do you think the advice BA gave me is correct?
  If I can’t find seats to SYD, can I still use the avois/money in the booking for a different destination or two?
  I have today to decide, then I somehow have to get BA to answer the phone… 🙂

  • Will says:

    30 Oct30 October 12:00

    I think you would get a second voucher for any remaining avios and cash if you rebooked a different destination.

  • H says:

    30 Oct30 October 12:14

    If BA have cancelled and you have not accepted a voucher / refund / alternate rebooking option yet, what the agent told you is utter nonsense. You should be able to rebook for free on a date of your choosing regardless of Avios availability. I would suggest HUACA. If you don’t get anywhere, you can go to CEDR / MCOL (as long as you haven’t accepted a refund / voucher, etc)

    • Backpacker says:

      30 Oct30 October 12:28

      Hello – I have not accepted anything from BA yet. They did say (in theory) that for re-booking there did not have to be avois availaibility. But they then said as the companion voucher used expired 1 Nov, I had to book & travel in 5 days. 🙂
      The trouble appears to be the companion voucher expiry..

      • Sean says:

        30 Oct30 October 12:46

        Absolute tosh from BA – regardless of how you “paid” initially – because BA cancelled you are entitled to 2 seats in J to Aus at a time of your choosing (subject to seats being available for sale). If they refuse – send a letter before action to BAs lawyers at waterside and then MCOL them.

    • Rachel Robinson says:

      30 Oct30 October 13:17

      But what happens to the 241? Does it not matter that its expired? I’m in a similar situation but slightly less urgent.

  • J says:

    30 Oct30 October 12:20

    BA should have offered you the option of re-routing. If they cancelled the flight, it’s their responsibility to get you there – not dependent on Avios availability, and at no extra cost to you. See EU261, specifically Article 8.1. They’ll likely do everything possible to avoid it though, and you may have to go to CEDR/MCOL.

    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32004R0261

    And for the equivalent UK legislation, which essentially just refers back to EU261, with minor amendments to make it UK-specific – see Part 4(8) – https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/278/pdfs/uksi_20190278_en.pdf

  • Lady London says:

    30 Oct30 October 13:03

    BA is incorrect.
    Any voucher including 241 voucher, coupon, other voucher, sale price used to purchase, sale dates usef to purchase in, promotional offer used to purchase, avios discount used to purchase….all are totally irrelevant once you’ve purchased your ticket(s) using these.

    What you now are in possession of, is your 2 tickets that you purchased. Each of these tickets has its own full rights including all of EU261 and its name for the equivalent legislation in the UK.

    BA has now cancelled your flights that your tickets have on them. So you are not restricted to your cabin having avios seat availability for you to reroute (rebook) onto replacement date convenient to you. You are entitled to any available seat that’s being sold, in your cabin, on the date you choose. The 241 or whatever else you used to pay for all or any of your tickets, is completely irrelevant now as you have a full ticket with full rights for every seat.

    Your rights are strongest and best protected if you use the above and just book on your new convenient date. If BA isn’t flying on your convenient date then they are responsible for providing your reroute on another airline eg Qatar or Cathay (their choice provided they provide the date you need or as reasonably close timing-wise as poss).

    None of the above is allowed to cost you anything if BA cancelled flight. Not even an admin fee.

    If you take an FTV then as Colin Mackinnon said so well on this thread today, then the FTV does not preserve what you bought it only preserves what you paid. So if you take an FTV yes it will give you till Sept 2023 to rebook and fly, but I would guess pricing will have increased and availability to Sydney on avios is like hens’ wisdom teeth so good luck with that.

    • Lady London says:

      30 Oct30 October 13:14

      Do not, ever, let BA lying about your rights (which override their rules), denying you , telling you you can only have a refund for all sorts of fake rules, obstructing you, staring you out and making you panic cos you think you have to choose by the date of your original flightb(you don’t, you can let it go by), saying their systems won’t do stuff you have a right to (tough, they can reticket, it’s no biggie) intimidate, fool you or wear you down so you take a refund or an FTV when BA has cancelled a flight if you don’t want one.

      Different if you”ve booked nothing or if it’s near your flights and BA has made no cancellation and you want to extend your 241 to book&fly by Sept 2023. In that case take an FTV for your existing booking, or make a new cheap domestic booking using your 241, then cancel it for an FTV online, and say thank you to BA for still offering FTV’s (they won’t be offered forever once business improves).

      • Rachel Robinson says:

        30 Oct30 October 13:19

        Thank you very much for this explanation. Really helpful. I’ve been wondering the same but trying to research before asking as conscious that it was probably asked before somewhere. Just struggled to find the exact scenario.

      • Rachel Robinson says:

        30 Oct30 October 13:24

        They did tell me I could only book within ticket validity. So a year from ticketing. Is that also not true? I changed the booking in August so it was reticketed and they’re saying I can book up to next August. But they don’t fly to Bangkok in August!

        • Lady London says:

          30 Oct30 October 13:52

          Original ticket issue date, or reissue date (ie same ticket number “restamped” with new date when change is made) is what BA’s own rules have reverted to saying is the starting point for the 12 months they want you to reroute within (ie choose and rebook your convenient later date for the travel), if BA cancelled a flight you had booked.

          This is what BA would like. BA’s rules are contract-level and so are always overridden by statute. EU261 and its equivalent in UK law, are statutes. Within the EU261 statute, no limit is placed on the date within which you are able to choose your convenient date for reroute.

          Plenty of people have had their plans royally messed around by BA cancelling their flight. Especially for a much-looked-forward-to longhaultrip. Plenty of people have to involve others in order to replan. Most people are restricted as to how much holiday they can take, and when, by work and other reasons, especially in order to make a longhaul trip meanwhile. And many will have other travel and commitments already in place that any rebooking would have to take place after.

          Some people were travelling to an annual event public or private, that they cant rebook till a new date next year. Someone going to Asia may want to travel in same season, or to Japan only for Cherry Blossom, or to Iceland when the Northern Lights are likely to be seen etc. All these may well take a bit longer than 12 months from your last reissue date or even your last booked outward date.

          Remember BA messed up your plans by cancelling their flight, you may have lost prepaid event tickets, be on the hook for cancellation costs for hotels you had to cancel, lost car hire, none of which BA had to give you back when they cancelled your flight. So that’s why the legislation gives you a free choice of date to reroute.

          Just for the sake of all of us be aware of your own reasonable reasons for your new date eve though there’s currently no requirement. Even with the legislation in place airlines are still routinely denying passengers these rights even in unambiguous cases. So we don’t want airlines to be able to get protections we have removed by claiming passengers are using it unreasonably.

        • Lady London says:

          30 Oct30 October 14:01

          Rachel if that’s your convenient date and BA’s not flying it then they are responsible for providing your ticket on another airline. Ask them for dates you want. If they refuse start letter before action process and then mcol as explained by several of us in detail many, many times here. Google the posts.

          If you do this quickly you have a reasonable chance you will get judgment before your date of travel so you won’t have to lay out.

      • Backpacker says:

        30 Oct30 October 13:27

        Hey Lady London, thanks for your replies, I see you give a lot of your time to people asking questions on this forum – It is appreciated!

        So is there a time limit that I must re-book these tickets, booked June 2020 for travel Jan 2021 (then cancelled twice) – Ideally I would book in early Dec 21,for Nov 2022 outbound, Jan 2023 return. They are obviously going to bring up the expiring Campanion voucher again and refuse to re-book, what legislation/time limits can I point them to to enforce these rights?

        Obviously prefer a conversation rather than legal action/threats…

        • Lady London says:

          30 Oct30 October 13:55

          You cant call till all the flights you want incl the return are showing as available. I’d call then.

        • Rachel Robinson says:

          30 Oct30 October 15:16

          Hugely helpful LL! Thank you from a fellow Londoner. 😊

        • Rachel Robinson says:

          30 Oct30 October 15:20

          I actually want a later date. Basically just over a year from original travel. But that was booked nearly a year before so wouldn’t be allowed by their year rule. I originally booked london to Bangkok in November 2021, returning from Singapore in June 2022. Been cancelled. But 242 expires April 2022 so was worried that would scupper my plan to request november or December 2022 departure (with only a 6 week trip instead of a 6 month one). But I think you’ve confirmed that it doesn’t and that when the November flights to BKK become available I can insist they book us onto them. Although from what you and others have said it sounds like that might involve a battle.

          Thanks again.

        • Ken says:

          30 Oct30 October 18:13

          Excellent responses LL

        • Lady London says:

          30 Oct30 October 21:17

          Rachel from what you’ve said it sounds as though your plan to travel out to Asia has always needed to within a particular period in the year for whatever reason – seasonal in terms of which season you planned to be where, or needing to take holiday from work or other commitments only at a certain time of the year, needing to save up leave or stay till the end of a contract, whatever.

          And it sounds like having the flights cancelled that were, has lost you the chance to do the travel for pretty much a whole year before you’re able to do that travel out again and you’ve had to change other plans too.

          I think you’re both pushing it a bit – Rachel and backpacker – but it’s very longhaul and a very seasonally-affected areas you’re travelling to. Personally to reroute to same time of year 1 year later than the current outbound flight feels reasonable and of course allowing a bit longer to give a bit of flexibility so personally 2 or 3 months later at a push feels max. Otherwise I’d hope you have good reason ready – again not required, but we do not want to appear unreasonable to a judge and we do not want the legislation discredited.

          In any case you can’t reroute until you can actually see the dates and flights you want online. You could try yourself online first in MMB to make the change when you see the flights you want are all being offered for sale – for some people this has worked. But most people have to call.

          So call again, ask again, say nothing and be nice, see what they say, know your need and why it’s reasonable and keep watching here in case of news that might change your view on how far you have the appetite to take things.

• Grimz says:

  30 Oct30 October 12:07

  That sounds wrong I would try and call back again and see what the next agent says.

• Junior says:

  30 Oct30 October 12:24

  I’ve just logged into my Flying Club account and on the dashboard, under status, it says “Lifetime Gold Member”. I’ve certainly not qualified for this (I’m silver), and all the branding/text is still in silver, not gold. Anyone else had this? I’m assuming it’s just a glitch in the system somewhere.

  • Munch says:

    30 Oct30 October 13:00

    Same on my account, I’m also Silver. The drop down on my name still states silver so must be a glitch.

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