The HfP chat thread – Friday 15th October

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• Laura says:

  15 Oct15 October 10:26

  Thanks to the HfP hivemind for saving my friend’s weekend in Riga.

  Covid passes are required to do anything inside (restaurants, museums, etc) there, and they won’t accept the UK QR codes or printouts apparently.

  I remember reading something here about the French app accepting UK QR codes, so I suggested she did that and it worked.

  She won’t have to spend the weekend in her room eating takeaways!

  • Joints&Piles says:

    15 Oct15 October 12:46

    I was recently in Riga. Officially they only accept the NHS letter for vaccination proof, not the printout or the app.
    In reality, every hotel and restaurant etc that I went to either didn’t ask or took a quick glance at the printout and said “OK, fine, come on in”.
    Same when I was in Helsinki, Tallinn and Ljubljana last month – whatever the official rules are, a quick glance at the printout was enough. On a few occasions, they tried to scan it, it didn’t work, I said “It’s the English one”, they said “OK, fine, come in.”

• Andrew says:

  15 Oct15 October 10:28

  Is it fair that BA, Marriot, Expedia, Agoda, Booking, Princess and many others got away with paying from nothing to a miserable figure in compensation for being careless with customer data – when we now know you can potentially claim for £lots&lots if someone on the same street installs a Ring camera or similar to deter vandals and captures you walking past a few times a day?

  Should our expectations be managed considerably upwards for future data breaches?

  • Richie says:

    15 Oct15 October 10:33

    How many vandals said ring cameras deter them?

    • elguiri says:

      15 Oct15 October 12:17

      I think Andrew was referring to the recent judgment that the Ring camera “unjustifiably invaded” the privacy of a neighbour and “contributed to harassment”. Referring to it being in breach of UKDPA and GDPR.
      It was published on BBC news site yesterday.

  • Super Secret Stuff says:

    15 Oct15 October 13:59

    BA only got away with paying so little because of Covid. Also the regulations that allow the big £ came into affect after some of the breaches you refer too (if memory serves me correctly). The law you have to rely on is the one when the breach first occurs

• Cat says:

  15 Oct15 October 10:37

  Hi all! I need to in some way cancel half term flights to Kochi with Etihad (yes, that was wildly optimistic, I know), and I can either get a refund, Etihad credit, or the ability to rebook with no fare difference (as long as I rebook in the same fare class and zone).

  I don’t want a refund, as these flights were booked when there was some sort of absurd AMEX statement credit (£200 or £250 back when you spend £500, or something like that), so were a major bargain.

  The rebook option sounds great, but it says “You must book before 31 May 2022” – am I right in thinking that this means I need to actually book my flights by May 2022, so I can travel in October half term 2022, or even Easter 2023, or would you take this to mean I need to book so that my outbound (or inbound) flight depart by 31st May 2022 (which wouldn’t work).

  Any advice greatly appreciated! TIA

  Also – Mr(s) Entitled, I absolutely should have moved seats away from the coughing guy on the train at the weekend. I didn’t, because I have to take trains every day, and I’m just fed up of moving seats multiple times because of other people’s poor pandemic hygiene (I even got shouted at and called some very rude names by one man, when I had the temerity to move away from him, when he sat near me with no mask on).

  I really wish I did move though, because I’m now isolating at home for the next week with an absolutely banging case of COVID.

  Boo!

  • BuildBackBetter says:

    15 Oct15 October 10:57

    Sorry to hear that. Last week an old man sneezing all the way from his seat to the door, passing me on the way. He didnt bother wearing a mask or even turning the other way.
    Thats my main problem with getting back to office. No one listens to the advice on wearing masks. I’d like to avoid cold, cough or flu, if I could.
    On the Etihad one, best to speak to airline and get it confirmed.

    • Cat says:

      15 Oct15 October 11:16

      The number of people who wear no mask and when they cough or sneeze, they half-heartedly put a fist somewhere near their face, rather than burying their face in their elbow, never ceases to amaze me.

      It’s like the last 2 years never happened.

      It’s crazy that mask wearing is advice, rather than being mandatory.

      This pandemic has really highlighted just how many people think only of themselves, and just how many people have zero understanding of Science.

      I’m Tweeting Etihad now…

  • Richie says:

    15 Oct15 October 11:02

    There’s more than 45,000 cases a day, no prizes for guessing why.

    • Cat says:

      15 Oct15 October 11:17

      Indeed.

  • Lady London says:

    15 Oct15 October 11:29

    Poor you, Cat. And to think you’ve avoided Covid whilst teaching some of the most likely transmitters of Covid in school for so long.

    Then some selfish git, as seems to be the way in the UK, with filthy personal habits regardless of whether they have Covid or not, ruins it all.

    You could have been a vulnerable old lady, out for essential shopping because she had no one to shop for her, perhaps one of the 10% of them that end up in hospital despite being fully vaxxed, and that c**t wouldn’t care.

    I wish you all the best Cat and I’m embarrassed to be British due to this kind of thing being tolerated in England.

    • Cat says:

      15 Oct15 October 12:06

      I know! I’ve been the biggest jobsworth about wearing my mask at school (and everywhere else) and insisting my students do the same, I’ve nagged them about mask hygiene, sneezing and coughing into elbows (or dab-sneezing and dab-coughing – they’re far more likely to do it, if it gives them the excuse to do a dance move) and using hand sanitiser, and I’ve somehow not had covid until now. Then, as you say, some filthy c**t on a train…

      It’s good to see you here Lady London, I’ve missed chatting with the regulars here! I hope you’re healthy and happy! X

      • Froggee says:

        15 Oct15 October 12:49

        Is this more HFP code – like bendy, beardy, Solihull c**t?

        • Cat says:

          15 Oct15 October 13:12

          HFP code gets ever more complex…

        • Lady London says:

          16 Oct16 October 17:01

          You are far too refined, Froggee

  • Lyn says:

    15 Oct15 October 12:15

    Poor you, Cat! I’m sure I’m not the only one here hoping you recover quickly and fully.

    • Cat says:

      15 Oct15 October 12:18

      Thanks Lyn! I hope that too!

      • meta says:

        15 Oct15 October 13:01

        Poor you! I am so sorry to hear that. Yesterday, I had similar situation on a bus. I was sitting further away and wearing a mask as always. I had last December and I absolutely know how it affects you. As we go into the winter, I think FFP3 mask is in order for me. Wishing you a very speedy recovery!

        In regards to Etihad, check the ticket. It should have been issued with covid insurance. You might be able to claim full refund. My recent award ticket includes that, so no reason your cash doesn’t either. When you log into the booking there should be a banner on top with a link to covid policy documents.

        • Cat says:

          15 Oct15 October 13:17

          Thanks Meta!

          I’ve managed to change my ticket to an open ticket, to be rebooked to fly out anytime up to April 2023. I’ll try to use it for next October half term – with the AMEX statement credit, I think the ticket ended up costing me a grand total of £250, which is an incredible fare from London to Kerala, so I didn’t want the refund on this occasion.

          Thanks for your help Meta! I hope you’re well!

  • Simon says:

    15 Oct15 October 13:02

    Sorry to hear you caught Covid. If it was this coughing c**t who passed it on to you, do you think him wearing a mask would have made any difference? Or do you mean that he shouldnt have been out and about while coughing like that? I ask this, because I had a cough last week, and daily negative COVID tests, yet on the tube, if i coughed behind my mask, i still got some delightful dirty looks…..
    I wasnt sure what to do.

    • Cat says:

      15 Oct15 October 13:27

      Coughing behind a mask (ideally dab-coughing) and doing your best to contain your droplets is the best you can do, if your LFTs are coming back negative. Unfortunately, even then you’re going to get looks in a pandemic!

      I don’t know whether it would have stopped me catching it for certain, but masks cut the number of droplets you spray everywhere dramatically, as does covering your mouth and nose with your elbow (ideally do both). This guy had this dreadful, continuous, hacking cough, and he was doing almost nothing to stop the droplets he was spraying everywhere, for the duration of the train journey. He deserved every one of the dirty looks he was getting (and I really should have just got up and moved the first time he did it).

      He caught the dirty looks, but clearly didn’t care about anyone but himself.

      • Simon says:

        15 Oct15 October 14:08

        Maybe you didnt catch it from him!! this is the world we now find ourselves. Either way, thankfully the vaccine has eased the symptoms, and you can celebrate your bday later this month

    • Lady London says:

      16 Oct16 October 17:03

      You should not be out and about with a cough these days. Endof

  • Memesweeper says:

    15 Oct15 October 13:29

    Oh that sucks, sorry to hear that @Cat

    • Cat says:

      15 Oct15 October 13:47

      It does suck, especially since I’ve had to cancel my birthday weekend plans. But, hey, it could be worse – I’m one of the lucky ones who’s been able to get fully vaccinated before I caught it!

      How are you Memesweeper?

      • Nick Burch says:

        15 Oct15 October 13:53

        Covid and no birthday weekend, that really sucks! Hope the worst of it passes soon Cat…

        • Cat says:

          15 Oct15 October 14:04

          Hey Nick! It’s good to hear from you! How have you been? Long time!

          To be fair, we should still be able to make our Le Gavroche booking for later in half term (between mine and OH’s birthdays, and thankfully after my isolation ends!).

          I hope you’re both well! Love to M! X

        • Nick Burch says:

          15 Oct15 October 15:53

          We’re just back from a lovely trip to Germany, got to stay in Schloss Lieser which was excellent, drink lots of wine, lots of walking, plus the fun of constantly rebooking hotels + car hire as BA kept cancelling flights… I think you’d like it around there, lots of great walking trails all well marked, almost no English people, nice hotels to leave the other half in while you go walking, and local wines each evening 🙂

        • Cat says:

          15 Oct15 October 18:25

          Ooooooh, that does sound ideal (apart from the constantly rebooking part!). I do like my Mosel wines, and I certainly like walking trails with few English people!
          That’s going on my ever-expanding list!

  • Super Secret Stuff says:

    15 Oct15 October 14:03

    That sucks, hope you get better soon! I always move away whilst glaring at them or get them to move if in the disabled space with OH (regulars will know why its hilarious when I stare someone down)

    • Cat says:

      15 Oct15 October 14:44

      I used to move, and will go back to doing so, as soon as I’m allowed out again! I’ve tried giving them my best teacher death-stare, but while that works a treat on teenagers, it appears that wilfully ignorant Science-deniers remain unaffected.

      I used to count as a regular, but clearly I’m not regular enough anymore – I’m intrigued, why is it hilarious?

      • TJones says:

        15 Oct15 October 20:29

        In the olden days, in polite company, people used to cough to cover up their farts. Now the opposite is true.

        • Cat says:

          15 Oct15 October 22:07

          🤣

• Distichon says:

  15 Oct15 October 10:57

  Did anybody have issues with their Virgin CC and Google Pay? Got mine yesterday, popped to the shop to pay something with Chip + PIN. Afterwards tried adding the card, but Google Pay gives up and says “This feature isn’t supported by your bank for this card yet”. Tried again today (maybe IT is slow and needs an overnight cycle), still no luck.

  Any experiences whether flagging the card for that kind of use is about as slow as their glacial pace of mailing cards out?

  • Sam says:

    15 Oct15 October 11:21

    I don’t think VA support Google Pay…only Apple Pay.

    • Distichon says:

      15 Oct15 October 11:34

      It should, these days. Both Virgin: https://uk.virginmoney.com/current-accounts/pca/app-features/ and Google say so (Clydesdale Mastercard): https://support.google.com/pay/answer/7351534?hl=en

      • Distichon says:

        15 Oct15 October 18:07

        OK, I have to eat some crow and tell you that you are absolutely right. Just came off the phone with Virgin, and despite them advertising google pay support, that’s apparently only with their debit cards, not the credit cards.

        Comes as a bit of a shock and definitely makes the card a whole less useful. That’s the first time I’ve heard a card only supporting one, but not the other. Not supporting either, sure, a bit old-school, but… only supporting one and not the other? That seems like a very strange decision. Interesting that Virgin doesn’t seem to care about half or so of its users. But then again, I heard that caring about users doesn’t seem to be high on their list anyway, what with the rickety app and all….

        Oh well, I mostly got the card for fee-less Euro transactions and a few miles on the side. Definitely happy now with my choice to only go with the free version!

        • Magic Mike says:

          15 Oct15 October 18:26

          A legitimate reason to use Bendy I would say…

        • Distichon says:

          15 Oct15 October 18:39

          (For some reason I can’t reply to Mike directly)
          Yeah, I’m considering going on a bender, which I haven’t done so far. But then again, I my Amex for almost everything. Seems more and more shops take it these days. I’ll give it a go with the card instead of my phone (how quaint!) and see how I fare with that.

          Doesn’t help that the card feels quite cheap. I think it’s the combination of the lack of embossed numbers and the weird red-rose-white color scheme on the back that reminds me more of a supermarket points card than anything I have a credit limit on.

          My translucent N26 debit card (you can even see the NFC antenna wire!) is probably still my favourite design of all times.

  • Anuj says:

    15 Oct15 October 13:15

    I’ve had this problem with B bank(same company) and I had to ring them, they then reset something on their end and fixed it.

    • Distichon says:

      15 Oct15 October 14:25

      Thanks for that hint, I’ll wait until Monday just on an off-chance it’ll fix itself, then I’ll try that.

• Ant says:

  15 Oct15 October 11:09

  Regarding my Johannesburg flights that were cancelled and BA chat/twitter/phone refused to move them to Apr – only up to ticket validity (Feb). I contacted the legal team & this morning got this:
  “Article 8(1)(c) of the Regulation does not give passengers a right to rebooking at any time of their choosing. If the Regulation was interpreted to mean a passenger has a right to be rebooked at any time, then in theory a passenger could re-book in several years’ time. This would be counter to the purpose of the Regulation which is to reduce the trouble and inconvenience caused to passengers who should be rebooked on the next available flight.”
  So now i am left with either CEDR or moving within ticket validity. With the ticket validity does the outbound and inbound flights have to be within one year of the ticket vaidity?

  • ChrisC says:

    15 Oct15 October 11:17

    The regulation doesn’t place a limit so that’s a BA interpretation of it.

    I’d go to MCOL and get a judge to decide.

    • JDB says:

      15 Oct15 October 11:22

      There must be a limit, as such laws are governed by ‘reasonableness’ (for both parties) but I don’t know how far this has been tested in a UK (higher) court, so if there is no precedent, it will depend on the individual judge.

      • Richie says:

        15 Oct15 October 11:33

        No airline would let a UK261 case go to a higher court, they are doing well with their ‘get lost’ approach.

  • Richie says:

    15 Oct15 October 11:29

    re “….the purpose of the Regulation which is to reduce the trouble and inconvenience caused to passengers who should be rebooked on the next available flight…” It doesn’t say this in Art. 8.1(c). Re-routing to April 22, seems perfectly ressonable, go to MCOL.

    • JDB says:

      15 Oct15 October 11:37

      Yes, to MCOL but as BA seems to be trying to push back, you need to marshal all your arguments as to why you need/can only move to April, eg can only get holiday then, can only travel in school holidays, seasonality of what you had booked in SA or whatever applies to your circumstances that will support your case and make your case to move the flights beyond technical validity reasonable.

      • Lady London says:

        15 Oct15 October 11:43

        Only need to have that ready JDB currently the law is clear enough that it’s not required to be proven.

        • JDB says:

          15 Oct15 October 12:04

          The case may be decided on the papers; it would be madness not to put your case at the outset which may also make them settle based on the LBA.

  • Lady London says:

    15 Oct15 October 11:42

    So BA’s making the law now?
    Really?
    Let them take it up with a judge then.

    MCOL would be my advice as the law is clearly on your side. You’ll get the small fee back.

    Personally as this response is borderline vexatious as the law is clear and BA is saying they’re above the law, add statutory interest pro rata 8% to the example pricing you show them of a few flights with other airlines on the day you need.

    If you can, without stating particularly you did this, choose non-OneWorld airlines for these quotes so BA will know they’re up for the cash and can’t just ticket their way out of it if they keep up this illegal refusal. Won’t work if your first sector has to be a BA domestic though, but should work in other cases. I’ve explained why, before.

    So to be clear that’s what your MCOL claim is for – cost of replacement travel on your convenient date that you have a right to plus the 8%. BA should settle before court once you reach intelligent life there.

    Address a Letter Before Action to BA Legal at Waterside now.

    • Richie says:

      15 Oct15 October 11:51

      Isn’t ‘vexatious’ a bit more black and white? They fundamentally want to save money, I don’t think causing annoyance is their intention.

      • Lady London says:

        15 Oct15 October 12:18

        Well BA is consistently and systematically denying passenger rights in a very clear robust piece of law that there is no ambiguity about it applying over and over again. And according to reports here and this example today, accompanying their denial of rights by repeatedly making statements to passengers about their rights which are incorrect.

        I’d call this repetitive behaviour by BA vexatious as they are deliberately leaving passengers no way to get their rights other than wasting the court’s time in cases of no ambiguity that BA owes these passenger rights according to very clear law. So yes, BA is systematically and deliberately wasting the court’s time and that’s vexatious.

        • Memesweeper says:

          15 Oct15 October 13:33

          You can apply for costs even at MCOL if they are found to be vexatious.

      • Ant says:

        15 Oct15 October 14:24

        thinking about it, if they are moving flights based on ticket validity then someone on same flight as me who booked the flight in September to fly in November gets the option to rebook anytime up to Sept 2022. So obviously BA must think it is reasobale to move it up to 1 year and passengers on teh same cancelled flight have different options. How can this make sense? or am i missing something?

    • J says:

      15 Oct15 October 12:33

      Re the 8% statutory interest – does one claim that from (I assume) the date of purchasing the replacement ticket, or (perhaps?) the date of filing the MCOL claim, or (long shot) the date the original flight was cancelled, or (even longer shot) the date you paid for the original flight?

      Can one claim for time spent on the phone trying to get through to BA? 😉

      • meta says:

        15 Oct15 October 13:12

        Just do MCOL please if you can, as it costs them real money rather than CEDR. Or just mention it to them that you will not go to CEDR, that you will go to court which will cost them X in extra costs. They’ll settle hopefully. I always include the following sentence in my LBA:

        “I will claim for statutory interest until BA have made payment; and I will seek recovery of any legal costs and expenses in undertaking and pursuing the legal action including, but not limited to, the court fee for issuing proceedings and any costs and expenses of using legal representation).”

        Obviously the last bit about costs for legal representation is not claimable from MCOL, but it shows the strong intent that you will do everything necessary to enforce it. You really need to come strong on them!

    • StillintheSun says:

      15 Oct15 October 13:11

      Has anyone found any legal precedent that actually deals with the point as to how long after the original flights one insist on new flights? BA obviously says one year from ticket issuing which could result in a very narrow window if the flight is cancelled towards the end of the ticket validity and thus render the EC right of limited value.

      I used the search term “EC Regulations 261/2004” on Westlaw and threw up 100 cases, mainly at the ECJ level and none of which appeared from a brief read of the 3 line summary to be relevant.

      I want flights on almost the same dates I originally had but a year on. Given there may be a myriad of reasons why only a narrow selections of dates might be appropriate for a re-book (birthday, festival, wildlife, teacher’s holidays) BA’s interpretation feels rather narrow to me so I am happy to MCOL them if they refuse my final offer to rebook. I’m just surprised that I have failed to turn up any authority of the point. Anyone else better luck!

      • meta says:

        15 Oct15 October 13:13

        Singapore Airlines have done beyond ticket validity for me. It’s called re-issuing the ticket. They just re-issue the ticket with new PNR and don’t charge anything!

        • meta says:

          15 Oct15 October 13:14

          And then in notes they put the old PNR as well so when you look at Amadeus then it shows both!

        • Memesweeper says:

          15 Oct15 October 13:35

          +1

          Never mind Singapore, BA have done it for me, several times. It’s perfectly normal practice – they have commercial reasons for choosing not to.

      • meta says:

        15 Oct15 October 13:35

        @Stillinthesun MCOL rulings are not published and in addition they do not set precedents. You check various ECJ rulings when they are called upon to interpret. There are cases there about re-routing.

        • StillintheSun says:

          15 Oct15 October 13:42

          @meta First instance decisions by a district judge won’t be reported but it is possible that an appeal to a circuit judge would have found its way online. The same is merely persuasive to a lower DIstrict Judge but helpful nonetheless! There are plenty of ECJ cases concerning re-routing in the 100 I found but nothing arguing this aspect at least in my fairly speedy review. If the hive mine has found one it would be really helpful to pass it around but so far no-one is citing one! If I find something I’ll stick it on here!

      • Lady London says:

        16 Oct16 October 17:15

        The text of EU261 is clear and does not state a limit

        Until it’s stated, or in the case of the UK equivalent law there is good case law that indicates otherwise, this means there is no limit.

        JDB will be along soon to say must be reasonable and I would agree…within reason, for your own situation. We do not want this law weakened by case law as it’s what stops the airlines abusing us except in rare circumstances. So everybody please be reasonable and have explanations ready in case it comes up but currently you’re not required to provide any reason for choosing your convenient date.

        • JDB says:

          16 Oct16 October 17:33

          @LL I think it is better to state your case up front, rather than having an explanation ready, a) because if you put it in your LBA it may expedite a resolution, b) the judge may direct a hearing on the papers so better to have your arguments set out and c) if it gets to a hearing, time will be very tight. A one year deferral often seems very logical for seasonality, time off work, school holidays but if you go to longer a good reason will be all the more important. While there is no actual time limit, two years might be tricky? [btw, @LL I’m a bit worried you’re going soft as I haven’t read any comments from you re the new LHR charges announcement airlines are already complaining about before the official announcement!]

• Zoe P says:

  15 Oct15 October 11:10

  Morning.
  Just a note that I was accepted for Premium Card on Wednesday and received it today. Very quick!
  Is there a limit on it. I know it is a charge card but wasn’t sure if there was still a limit.
  Zoe

  • MinR says:

    15 Oct15 October 11:27

    Premium Card or Platinum Charge Card?

    The BA Premium Plus card is a credit card so has a credit limit. The Amex Platinum is a charge card so doesn’t have a limit. There’s a ‘Spend power’ feature in the app:

    No pre-set limits

    There are no pre-set spending limits on the American Express® Charge Card. You can spend as much as you’ve shown us you can afford. Your spending limit is based on factors including your current spending patterns, payment history, credit record and financial resources.

    Larger than usual purchases

    If your first purchase is going to be a large one, or you’re going to make a significantly larger purchase than usual, it’s a good idea to give us a call on 0800 032 7642. Alternative, you can also use our check spending power feature within the American Express® App or on your Online Account. For the App, go to the ‘Statements’ tab and tap ‘Check Spending Power’. For web, simply go to Account Manager, click on Check Spending Power and follow the instructions on the screen.

    • Zoe P says:

      15 Oct15 October 11:31

      I meant Platinum! Doh! Thanks for this!

• AngryOctopus says:

  15 Oct15 October 11:13

  Any Addison Lee first ride codes going about? RIDE8 doesn’t work anymore

• Mick S says:

  15 Oct15 October 11:21

  Amex offers questions. I’m opted in to the £50 statement credit for Marriott hotels on my Amex Gold. My wife is a secondary cardholder and will be using her card in a couple of weeks when she has a weekend away at a Marriott hotel with her friends. Does she need to opt in too, or does my registration suffice?

  • N says:

    15 Oct15 October 11:22

    she needs to opt in

  • Lee says:

    15 Oct15 October 11:44

    She need same offer on her own card to be able to use it

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