The HfP chat thread – Wednesday 13th October

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Fred S says:

13 Oct13 October 16:07

Re BA offer back in August when you could part-pay with Avios giving 2% return. My booking gave a £400 discount for using 20,000 avios for 4 pax. We now can’t travel. For once, this booking ahs remained intact with no changes/cancellations by BA. 1st flight is on Sat. I think I have to keep trying to get through to BA or should I just use the cancel into voucher option on MMB? If I did the latter, I’m concerned as to how the 20,000 avios would be refunded in view of the higher value at the time.
- elguiri says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 16:22
  
  You will get the cash equivalent at the 200% rate for the avios.
  As an example, I had a flight booked for £240+15k avios, it says the flight value is £540 in the booking email (the £300 being 15k avios at 200% value).
  I cancelled this last week through MMB and got an evoucher for £540 by email.
  - Fred s says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 16:31
    
    Thanks! I’ll press ahead
FFoxSake says:

13 Oct13 October 16:11

100% bonus on HHonors points purchases is back again (until Dec 7th)
Craig says:

13 Oct13 October 16:11

New features on my Creation IHG Card (No cancellation letter yet!)

We’ve added a NEW feature to your account: Transfer cash from your Creation issued Credit Card into your bank account for a one-off fee, at 0% interest, spreading the cost over 12 monthly repayments.

How much do we think the fee is?
- CarpalTravel says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 16:16
  
  “You will be charged interest from the date of the transaction and you may be charged an additional fee of up to 5% or £5.”
  
  I am guessing that just apply that or a similar value to the transaction instead?
  - Craig says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 16:18
    
    6.75%
    - Craig says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 16:19
      
      They must be trying to recoup some lost revenue?
      - CarpalTravel says:
        
        13 Oct13 October 16:21
        
        Ouch!!!
    - Peter K says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 17:01
      
      You’d be better off getting a loan from a high street bank than that!
    - Harrier25 says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 17:58
      
      Must be slow to catch on in Solihull, me thinks. I’ve been using my IHG card for bank transfers for the last 2 years and mainly interest free! 😅
- RussellH says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 17:05
  
  And on the Marriott Card too.
  
  Read one of the e-mails, then both direct –> Bin
- Track says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 17:17
  
  So, Creation forcibly close accounts of customers using Curve for cash-like transactions, citing all sorts of breach of Mastercard rules wrt MS, and AML rubbish internally.
  
  Then, in instant offer cash to your bank account… So Creation can offer you a loan effectively, without a banking licence and all good business when they breach rules and regulations.
  
  We really have zero financial services customer protection in this country. I have two FOS cases at the moment, where companies just did not bother to reply to FOS from March and May times (8 week period is well gone) and this is treated as the new normal.
  - JDB says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 17:28
    
    You don’t need a banking licence to offer loans. Creation’s principal business is consumer lending, acting as the lender behind lots of High Street names. In respect of ‘cash type’ transactions, Creation and most credit card firms allow cash advances or balance transfers (to a another card or bank) provided they are labelled as such and respect any (credit) sub-limits. It is unofficially turning a credit card limit into cash they don’t like for obvious credit risk and financial reasons.
    - Track says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 19:28
      
      Let me put it simpler:
      
      If you transfer money from Creation to Revolut, then to you bank account — from industry’s viewpoint, you are potentially committing misuse of facility, misrepresentation, fraud, money laundering and all mortal sins.
      
      If Creation transfers the same money to the same bank account of yours (charging a commission) — this is a legal, authorised lending activity.
      
      At core, the activity and outcome are exactly the same. Customers are not allowed to use financial services at their own initiative, while companies can invent ways, such as offer sub-limit cash advances.
      
      Consumer lending is completely different – there is a product purchased, bank loans too, you are actually declaring the purpose of loan (and they do call and ask if you put Other) — and you can be prosecuted if you claim to take a loan for home improvement but use the proceeds for financial market trading. Prosecuted for that fact alone, even if no ‘insider trading’ involved.
  - JDB says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 17:30
    
    Can you cite any rules and regulations they have breached as you claim?
  - Rui N. says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 17:34
    
    They did not cite any rules. They simply closed the cards.
    - JDB says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 17:40
      
      Sorry @Rui N, I was asking @Track as he is making some rather serious allegations about a regulated firm!
      - Rui N. says:
        
        13 Oct13 October 17:52
        
        Sorry, I was actually replying to Track who said that they cited all sorts of breaches when closing cards. But I read your comment in the meantime and used your words, not his!
      - Char Char says:
        
        13 Oct13 October 20:02
        
        Creation clearly is not a well respected firm by anyone I have heard from
      - kk says:
        
        22 Oct22 October 01:21
        
        id rather you spend ur time accusing creation closing down accounts just because they cant make more money out of us
- Sandra says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 17:38
  
  Same offer email here this afternoon (and no cancellation letter) – needless to say won’t be using it!
  - Sandra says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 17:43
    
    In fact just re read, it’s interest free over 12 months but 6.75% fee on amount transferred on my email – still won’t be using!
- Anna says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 19:05
  
  Clearly you’re the only customer left to prop up Creation, Craig.
  - Anna says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 19:06
    
    Sorry, and Sandra!
    - Froggee says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 19:19
      
      They still love me (not). Just got this email for the white card they sent me after my black Friday application but then immediately blocked the use of and gave two months notice of account closure:
      
      “Dear Froggee
      
      We hope you’re enjoying the many benefits that come with using your IHG® Rewards Club Credit Card. Remember, you’ll earn IHG Rewards Club points every time you spend, which you can redeem for Reward Nights* at over 5,200 IHG hotels worldwide or for experiences and events.“
      
      Sending such emails is almost taunting me, my feelings are hurt and I really don’t think this is treating me fairly. However the 10,000 bonus points are actually showing on my account so I’m intrigued to see if they actually post and I get to keep them. Ts&Cs say they can be clawed back if account is closed within six months. Just think of the many nights in top tier IHG hotels I could get for these 10,000 points.
- r* says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 21:16
  
  Just to check.. this doesnt automatically trigger if you top up che does it?
Lady London says:

13 Oct13 October 16:26

They’ve completely lost the plot haven’t they.
- RussellH says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 17:08
  
  They may have… or not.
  
  TBH, I do not really casre, as long as I can continue to get my Marriott points!
  - ThePenguin says:
    
    14 Oct14 October 00:34
    
    Can we till get this Marriott card from creation? and still working with Cuvre?
meta says:

13 Oct13 October 16:34

Just received an email from BA that my Dec/Jan flights to Bangkok have been cancelled. They are proactively offering rebook on Qatar Airways or Finnair. I need to think about it and see what’s happening with Thailand.
- Sam G says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 16:41
  
  That’s the handy thing about a cancellation, effectively gives you an open ticket to sit on and then either refund or rebook at your convenience
  - K says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 20:32
    
    Unlike Swiss/LH which gives you 2 weeks to make up your mind.
- Thom says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 16:57
  
  Thanks for the update – really good to know! I haven’t decided what to do with my cancelled November flights so nice to know they were offering the reroute you without issue!
  - meta says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 17:01
    
    All very handy, indeed! Actually surprised BA has offered this proactively.
    - BJ says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 18:11
      
      Nothing for us so far but hope it arrives to give me leverage and options. However, my thinking at the moment is to try and shift my cancelled Dec/Jan trip to October 22 and keep it on BA. My feeling is we might see a flood into Thailand this winter resulting in a covid spike and potential return to red. Cannot be bothered with that risk, Spring in Japan and Songkran in Thailand plus Thailand again in October is looking like the better option if BA plays ball. As always I’ll believe what’s happening in Thailand only when I see it, the country mostly seems risk-averse and the government is sensitive to that.
- Dan says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 17:01
  
  Just about to post the same thing. Very odd given that Thailand is opening up and off the red list, why would BA cancel all flights? I called and they have rebooked my Companion Voucher ticket onto Finnair at no extra cost – I didn’t realise companion vouchers could be used on non-BA flghts!
  - meta says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 17:25
    
    Have you not followed for the past 18 months? Of course, they cancelled the flight. You can be put on any flight at no extra cost, you can fly on any date that suits you in the future.
    
    And Thailand is not opening up yet, that’s the intention, but they might not. You do realise how long it took them to cook up sandbox scheme and that didn’t work out as well. I’ll sit on my ticket a while longer. I don’t understand the rush to rebook the instant cancellation email is received.
    - Dan says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 17:33
      
      As far as i was aware you could only rebook an Avios flight for another flight with Avios availability – apologies if I haven’t been keeping up 100% with this over the past 18 months!
      
      Thailand IS opening up. Have you not been following the news? It is opening up to vaccinated tourists from the UK.
      
      Good luck getting an Avios/BA companion voucher flight now the rest of the world are trying to do the same thing – check Seat Spy.
      - meta says:
        
        13 Oct13 October 17:37
        
        It’s not the law yet. The news are not the law. This was announced by PM, but it has to go through all sorts of committees before it is given royal assent and it’s not even published in official gazette either. There has always been discrepancies. For all we know, you still might have to apply for Certificate of Entry, do several PCR tests, quarantine for a day or two before the results of the first one.
      - Dan says:
        
        13 Oct13 October 17:46
        
        Well of course nothing is 100% at the moment. I took the chance on a cheap Companion Voucher flight in the hope it comes off. If it does great, if it doesn’t nothing lost.
        
        My point was really that when it looks highly likely that Thailand will be open to UK tourists over Xmas WHY would BA cancel all their flights? It makes no sense – other than that they are rejigging their schedule to presumably add a shed load more. That is all.
      - meta says:
        
        13 Oct13 October 18:06
        
        @Dan The thing I am saying is that by rebooking now, you lost your right to change the ticket to any date in the future. You are now bound by regular cancellation policy and subject to availability of Avios seats only. What if Thailand announces next month they are opening up on 20 Dec and your ticket is for 17th Dec? And you definitely lost at least £70…
      - Graham says:
        
        13 Oct13 October 18:24
        
        If they’ve cancelled it you don’t need the Avios availability. As long as there’s space you can request it. If you take a voucher etc then that’s a different story.
      - Track says:
        
        13 Oct13 October 19:51
        
        There is a very low probability of Thailand not opening. The estimated loss from 2020 season, particularly New Year/Winter was at $50 billion. Yes this is a regulated Asian society which is used to discipline and infection control measures, but living from one lockdown to another for the third year creates weariness. Their lockdowns are real: can’t drive to nearest town, have to wear mask in the heat at all times, etc.
        
        BA cancelling Dec flights is bizarre but maybe they gone low on cargo orders and cannot sell Club tickets at 5k.
        
        Flexibility of rebooking to later — well later there might be simply no options/no good options even on Qatar/Finnair as indeed will be influx of people wishing to travel.
        
        If BA cancels your Avios-booked flight, they will still need an authorisation to book in cash booking classes, and likely can only book into lower ones — so someone will need to create availability in those classes before they can re-book.
        
        At a later stage, BA certainly can’t create an availability in cheaper class codes on Qatar — if Qatar business cabin will be near full, BA will not be as proactive offering this re-booking.
  - Sam G says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 19:22
    
    They have a specific reaccomodation onto Finnair for these flights
    - meta says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 21:49
      
      QR as well according to my email.
      - Polly says:
        
        13 Oct13 October 23:03
        
        No luck for us being switched to QR for SIN tho
- Gary says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 17:22
  
  Did BA mention whether rebooked flights need to be within certain period (eg 1 year fr ticketing or original departure date)? Would be great if not and save CEDR paper work.
  - meta says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 17:31
    
    The email says subject to availability and ticket validity… I only booked the ticket 10 days ago.
    If I decide to fly next Christmas as would be perfectly reasonable and CS refuses, I will just send a snail mail to BA Legal remind them of EU261 and I am sure they’ll sort it out with CS.
- kitten says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 20:31
  
  Waaaaaait
  Thailand gov is constantly changing
  And at some point potentially quite soon FTV’s may not be any more
Dayle says:

13 Oct13 October 16:47

No creation letter yet on my black card – have used on Che but not Ernie

I’ve seen other comments re this: Card payment to them on Friday 8th hasn’t hit the account yet – The statement says 3 working days which takes us to today…
FlightDoctor says:

13 Oct13 October 17:02

Travelling to ACE via MAD with Iberia with 2.5 hours between flights. Anyone able to advise on Spanish Covid documentation – will the QR code and vaccination certificate need to be produced at MAD, or at ACE, or both? Just want to make sure I fill in the forms correctly!
- Mark says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 17:37
  
  Assuming you’re travelling from the UK, I can tell you what happened to me doing LHR-MAD-SCQ two days ago – I went through the Spanish health check, presenting the SpTH QR code only, immediately before the boarding pass check at flight connections. (In fact, arrivals to MAD follow the same route to that point, the health check area is in the baggage hall at MAD.) So it was the flight to MAD they wanted to know, not the flight to SCQ – the latter was domestic so no checks of any kind when landing there. SCQ of course is mainland Spain so the islands may be different.
  - Mark says:
    
    13 Oct13 October 17:39
    
    Oh, and Passport control took 45 minutes in T4S…better than the 60 minutes it took in July, but obviously rubbish compared to the 5 minutes max it would have taken with an EU passport…only a small queue at the E-gates, and a couple of dozen or so at the human gates.
    - FlightDoctor says:
      
      13 Oct13 October 17:44
      
      Thanks Mark. Very helpful
Greg says:

13 Oct13 October 17:05

For anybody looking for a “big plane” on a “small route”, check out BA’s LHR-ISTanbul flights.

After years flying an A320 with no entertainment whatsoever (not even a route map) compared to THY operating B777s, they now compete with a B777 on certain days – with Club Suites. My wife managed a seat in First (Rows 1 & 2) while I slummed it in Club a few days later.

It may be trivial, but I preferred my Club Suite on a 4 hour + flight to being crammed into rows 1-6 in front of a curtain any day. It was excellent. Just beware the flight back is at 8.30am if you are planning to enjoy the refreshments,
- Andrew says:
  
  13 Oct13 October 17:56
  
  That’s not trivial – that’s essentially why any of us are on this site – so we never have to sit scrunched up in close proximity to other people.