The HfP chat thread – Tuesday 12th October

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Char Char says:

12 Oct12 October 12:47

So creation are not awarding the free night despite already earning it, what is everyone’s plan of action as quite frankly not refunding the fee and then not giving the free night despite earning it is out of control!
- Anna says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 12:52
  
  Complaint to Creation, then FOS if that’s not successful. Opinions vary as to how effective this is going to be! There have been a few threads on this, e.g. yesterday.
- JDB says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 12:56
  
  There was a thread about this yesterday and on previous days. There is a divergence of opinion! The T&Cs clearly state that you must have an active account (and it be in good order) at your anniversary date and in a previous 2018 decision the FOS said anniversary + next fee payment are what trigger the voucher. The £10k spend doesn’t ‘earn’ you the voucher per the FOS. That just leaves the question of whether if Creation closes your account so that you don’t reach your anniversary, can they still not award the voucher. That isn’t a black/white case. That is the technical position; I am not giving any view.
  - Dave says:
    
    12 Oct12 October 13:23
    
    Yeah I think as JDB says it’s not totally clear. I feel fairly confident that the position my wife is in (year end in the next week or so, hit the spend but told no voucher) is indefensible. Don’t feel as confident for my postion, (July renewal, hit the spend and won’t give voucher)
    - JDB says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 13:34
      
      I think you are right that your two cases look different and maybe they will ultimately look at them differently. I think those with distant anniversaries will be more problematic. It does pose the question as to whether your wife should roll the dice and pay the new fee, as I think you can only not pay the fee by cancelling early so definitely no voucher, but paying the fee ought to put you in a much better position for the voucher yet isn’t guaranteed.
      - Ed says:
        
        12 Oct12 October 13:44
        
        The lack of a pro-rata fee refund is also surely questionable. If the cardholder has not breached any t&c’s and the card supplier has closed their account, then a pro-rata fee refund is surely due? putting aside any other possible claims of loss by card holder.
      - JDB says:
        
        12 Oct12 October 13:57
        
        @Ed there seems to be less mention about a fee refund now and oddly the position re the fee looks more complicated. Obviously, they don’t normally give pro-rata refunds whatever the circumstances. The FOS makes reference to the fee needing to be paid to trigger the voucher, so the last fee went towards your previous voucher. The FOS takes this from some T&Cs that I don’t have, but he says the customer has signed up to. There are some newer ‘headline’ T&Cs that aren’t clear on this point. It’s a mess!
      - Dave says:
        
        12 Oct12 October 14:01
        
        Yeah, I’m not overly worried/fussed about a pro rata card fee as the benefit of the card to me is the free night voucher. Closing my card half way through a card year is fine by me if they wish to do that. Not giving me the voucher is more of an issue for me
      - Anna says:
        
        12 Oct12 October 16:15
        
        Is there even a way to pay the fee if Creation doesn’t charge it?
    - Anna says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 16:15
      
      That’s identical to me and my OH. I’ll be claiming for this year’s voucher plus the one I think I should be entitled to for spending another £10k before December 3rd!
  - Char Char says:
    
    12 Oct12 October 14:37
    
    Thanks, can’t really go through old threads as far too many.
    
    Interesting that FOS decided that but I don’t think that this would stand up in this case where they are clearly cutting the year short for no reason.
    - Lady London says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 15:19
      
      FOS has made decisions that gone the other way on MCOL. Plus FOS has serious problems, is overwhelmed, takes ages, a bit like CEDR occasionally does a perverse decision. On the bright side, it usually costs the complained-against firm about £750 per complaint against them.
      - JDB says:
        
        12 Oct12 October 16:12
        
        Problem her @LL is that MCOL will apply a strict reading of the T&Cs which don’t work in the customer’s favour in this particular instance, whereas the FOS can consider the FCA fairness principles.
      - Memesweeper says:
        
        12 Oct12 October 16:18
        
        but MCOL can look at the fairness of the T&Cs themselves, which FOS may not.
        
        Personally I’m likely to go direct to MCOL over the free night and the refusal to refund the card fee (all of it — they cancelled, not me)
        
        The rest of my moaning will go to FOS.
      - Char Char says:
        
        12 Oct12 October 16:27
        
        @memesweeper thats right, I think there is most definitely the argument that Creation did not make it clear about their awarding of the free night in the first place never mind having to pay the second fee, which people could get refunded if they cancelled the card and didn’t use it, but still have the free night voucher.
        
        I think any reasonable judge will say that charging and annual fee and then cancelling the contract is not fair never mind not awarding the free night voucher, especially considering they have not even decided to mention this in any of their cancellation communication.
    - jack charlton says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 15:40
      
      “Obviously, they don’t normally give pro-rata refunds whatever the circumstances.”
      
      The circumstances are that the people involved have been told they are closing the account for business reasons. Clearly you can’t take a fee that gives you annual access to a card, then close the account with no suggestion that the user has done anything wrong and just keep the fee.
      - Char Char says:
        
        12 Oct12 October 16:29
        
        Yes exactly!
    - BP says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 16:45
      
      JDB, I’m beginning to think you are a Creation plant sent to discourage people from taking action!!
    - JDB says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 17:07
      
      @BP actually it’s quite the opposite. I am very close to this whole situation but I am trying to help people get their argument straight or they won’t win. It’s quite possible Creation will cave, but if not people need to be a bit clearer/more specific in their argument as the T&Cs are clearly not in your favour and decisions in various FOS cases vs Creation and Amex are against the cardholder. I help a lot of friends/family with FOS cases and have worked in the industry for 30+ years, so I know how this goes. On the surface it looks a simple case but in reality I don’t think it is. I am surprised at the mention of MCOL as I think the chances of winning there are fairly low so you risk your application fee and any hearing fee.
- Andrew says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 13:18
  
  Depends on what you want to do.
  
  What would I do?
  
  Probably find a fellow disgruntled IHG Cardholder, then park a car in front of each barrier of IHG’s Head Office in Denham at 3pm on a Wednesday Afternoon and refuse to move until Creation and IHG sort out the problem.
  
  I once blocked a car showroom’s entranceway at 7am on new registration day and refused to move until they resolved a problem I had. Four months of inaction resolved by 9am. The Police were great. Civil matter, private land, shrug.
  - Super Secret Stuff says:
    
    12 Oct12 October 14:18
    
    Lol! Love that. Best way to get action is to be generally persistent or stand out annoying
  - JDB says:
    
    12 Oct12 October 14:30
    
    Would make a nice day out as their HQ is next to Denham airfield and golf course.
  - Char Char says:
    
    12 Oct12 October 14:31
    
    Great idea, let us know when the Creation HFP meet up is!
  - BuildBackBetter says:
    
    12 Oct12 October 14:32
    
    Creation ordering a car removal service. Just in case…
    - Memesweeper says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 16:20
      
      Don’t leave the car. No removal firm will touch it then.
    - Chrisasaurus says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 22:26
      
      Not if the use one of their own cards, it’ll be declined for no clear reason whatsoever…
  - Voltron says:
    
    12 Oct12 October 15:14
    
    Lol doubt I would have the stones for that but fair play. I remember reading a comment on here once where someone said they had an issue with another financial company based in London, so they stalked linkedin, found a high up employee, followed them into the office building and refused to leave until complaint resolved haha
    - kitten says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 15:26
      
      Erm… Creation is not the same company, as IHG.
      - Yorkie Aid says:
        
        12 Oct12 October 15:30
        
        Yeah but Solihull wouldn’t be such a nice day out! At least we could get a decent curry afterwards though.
Michael AC says:

12 Oct12 October 12:50

I’ve booked a 2-for-1 Avios redemption. They’ve cancelled one leg and rebooked on another flight that’s perfectly fine. However, we were thinking of extending the trip. It’s giving us the option to rebook several days earlier. Is there any downside to doing so? It feels like a bit of a loophole.
- Pete M says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 12:53
  
  Nope – it’s a nice result, isn’t it? Remember that as they cancelled you have a lot more flexibility.
- Anna says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 12:55
  
  You might not get another chance to change the dates once you’ve accepted new ones, but other than that you would still have the usual option of cancelling for £35 pp if you couldn’t travel so little risk involved.
Save East Coast Rewards says:

12 Oct12 October 13:19

Anyone had any recent experience of Transport for Wales Rail? I booked through the BA shopping portal but the points have not shown up yet.

Last time I booked with TfW via the BA portal I got a notification that my points were pending three days after I purchased the train tickets although it took almost two months for the points to actually post.

This time over a week has passed and I’ve not received the pending message yet.

The tickets purchased were SWR tickets, but that doesn’t matter as TfW sells tickets for all GB rail operators so they should count for Avios.
Simon says:

12 Oct12 October 13:28

Are virgin still doing status matches ? I’m have just become gold with BA will VS match this , if so will VS accept the letter I got from BA through the post or do I need to screen shot app and send them the pic
- Rob says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 13:32
  
  Apart from ‘special’ matches like the one in Feb, they will only match if you send them a statement showing regular premium cabin flights on VS routes.
Dave says:

12 Oct12 October 13:39

Just got my Priority Pass card for my Amex Gold, “You are entitled to two complimentary lounge visits per year”. Is that calendar year or card year (i’m assuming the latter!)
- Super Secret Stuff says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 14:19
  
  Card year
Flying Misfit says:

12 Oct12 October 13:53

RE: Tesco 750 CC points for hotels.com booking promo

Back in June before Rob had written about it, I had received the email and booked a solitary night in Vietnam for just over a quid hoping to get the 750. Stay was for late June, all consequent emails about stay would suggest it went ahead as usual, although this one off booking was not attached to any hotels.com account login.

T & Cs state points will be credited with 14 weeks of stay. It’s been over 15 weeks now since stay and no points on horizon. Not inclined to chase for a solitary night and one off bonus but to those who booked backpacking sprees, it may well require chasing to get the CC bonus points.
Laura says:

12 Oct12 October 14:10

I can’t quite remember the exact details but there was a bonus for applying for a 1st Supp on Gold and then a further bonus for hitting a minimum spend.

I’ve got the 3000 for applying for the supp, but not the additional bonus for the minimum spend. Has anyone received that yet?
- Youllnever says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 14:13
  
  Not me.
- Alan Todd says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 15:43
  
  nope
- Tom says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 16:22
  
  No. And I had to ‘formalise’ my ‘complaint’ with the agent I spoke to on the phone when chasing it in order to receive a call back from a complaints resolution type.
  The call back materialised a couple of days later and, as pleasant as the second representative was, she alleged to find no reference to any such offer, anywhere.
  I had not taken screenshots (lesson learnt!) so couldn’t prove it either.
  After much going around in circles it became a case of explaining that I’m a +10 year AMEX member, have never raised a ‘complaint’ before and am unlikely to bother making up a story for the paltry reward of 3,000 membership points at this stage.
  She conceded to this and gave me 3,000 points as a ‘goodwill’ gesture, because “we all make mistakes” and “you’re such a valued member”.
  Seems a little crazy for 3,000 points, but it’s the principle that is frustrating! 🙂
  - Youllnever says:
    
    12 Oct12 October 17:46
    
    The offer page is still live: https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/benefits/supplementary-cards/ba.html?sourcecode=A0000FPMTX
    - Tom says:
      
      12 Oct12 October 18:39
      
      Really useful! Thank you!
John says:

12 Oct12 October 14:27

Willie Walsh on “a big disconnect between a growth in passengers and a growth in Co2”

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/1012/1253192-iata-conference-in-dublin/
- Richie says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 14:32
  
  That’s ok then.
- Chrisasaurus says:
  
  12 Oct12 October 22:28
  
  Well it’s really more the planes than the passengers I’d have thought…