The HfP chat thread – Thursday 7th October

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• Sina says:

  7 Oct7 October 14:34

  So I have a redemption flight with Singapore, which they have changed (cancelled) the return leg so I have 10 hours of delay in Singapore (in transit).

  I have spoken to SQ which do not want to change the date beyond 350 days, and would not change to any other destinations, and only agreed to refund, but:

  – it was booked on a 2for1 promo which I don’t want to lose
  – and I didn’t have enough miles so bought 14k miles for £400! which if everything worked as it should’ve, I was fine with it, but if I ask for a refund, they will refund this portion as Miles and not cash!?

  What should I do? just take the refund and don’t care about the £400 loss or is there a way to get the full refund of the cash paid?

  Thanks in advance!

  • TGLoyalty says:

    7 Oct7 October 14:43

    You don’t say where the flights are to/from

    Being from UK/EU probably gives you more rights than if they are elsewhere.

    You’re stuck with the 14k points you bought no way that will be factored in with any legal conversion re the flights.

    • Sina says:

      7 Oct7 October 14:47

      The flight is from the LHR to HKT, and points were purchased as part of booking the flights not separately (if that makes any difference!?)

      Initially, they refused to change it to any other dates and just said they are only refunding (so I booked another flight with SQ as I’m going anyway!)

      So if I could keep it, would be great too!

      • TGLoyalty says:

        7 Oct7 October 15:04

        I did think that after id posted but can’t edit.

        In that case I’d expect a full refund inc the £400. Shame it’s not the outbound cancelled how far is it? Could you just hold out for full cancellation then MCOL then if they refuse to rebook at your convenience

        • Harry T says:

          7 Oct7 October 15:16

          Agree with TG, wait and see if they cancel or move the outbound leg.

        • Sam G says:

          7 Oct7 October 15:52

          Yes – when is this for? If it’s Jan or after good chance there will be a cancellation on one of the legs

      • Sam G says:

        7 Oct7 October 15:51

        Your return flight Phuket-London is not covered under EU261 and the T&C of these bookings was that they’d be refunded if they were cancelled, so you’ve got little/no recourse unfortunately. Best hope is to nego a new itinerary that is acceptable to you.

        If you get a refund then I can’t seem them refunding the points to cash since that’s a separate transaction but it’s worth asking

        • Sina says:

          7 Oct7 October 16:04

          it’s not a separate transaction tho, I bought the miles as part of my flight booking, and paid everything at the same time.

        • Sam G says:

          7 Oct7 October 16:18

          Yes I was just playing around with it – doesn’t mention anywhere what happens if you cancel a flight in this scenario. I’ve still a suspicion the miles wouldn’t be refunded as cash by default (was the payment on your card statement separate?). If you need to discuss anything with them try to call during Singapore working hours and press the Chinese option – this should get you to the Singapore call centre (they all speak English) who are less “script” based than the overseas ones and can hopefully assist with reroute/refund etc, otherwise use the feedback form online. They’re usually a pretty helpful airline once you get to the right person

        • Sam G says:

          7 Oct7 October 16:26

          https://mainlymiles.com/2018/06/03/can-you-buy-krisflyer-miles-from-singapore-airlines/ well this is interesting – apparently they don’t get deposited to your miles balance. Not clear what actually happens but I can’t imagine they just disappear so hopefully you’d get the cash back

        • Sina says:

          7 Oct7 October 16:40

          Thanks All!

          No payment was done as one single line (on a canceled Amex!) so I will try calling the Chinese call center but probably wouldn’t push more or go to MCOL, as I’m very busy at the moment, but thanks for the wisdom everyone!

        • Lady London says:

          7 Oct7 October 21:21

          If T & C says flights are refunded if cancellef then I would take it to mean refunded if passenger cancels not airline.

          EU261 outranks any airline’s T & C if it covers the flight so gives the passenger other options at passenger choice rather than the T & C limitation which would be invalid.

          I’ve done 10hrs+ transit in Changi and while I love Changi it’s too much.

          Can you extend by 1 more day? SQ used to have excellent deals on hotels in town for a night or two of transit.

  • BJ says:

    7 Oct7 October 16:08

    Why not take advantage of one of the various transit tours they offer?

    • Sam G says:

      7 Oct7 October 16:10

      you can’t even freely roam the airport at the moment let alone go on any tours sadly! so I can see why a 10hr transit is not at all appealing though you can book the transit hotel for that length of stay

      • BJ says:

        7 Oct7 October 16:24

        Figured/hoped pace of change may start increasing rapidly soon.

        • Sam G says:

          7 Oct7 October 16:28

          their case rate per 100k is pretty much the same as ours now so you’d hope so – no point keeping such tight border controls if you’ve nothing to protect. They’re making some moves – UK is up to 10 day quarantine now & much of Europe up to 7 days quarantine (under more flexible terms) – no good for tourism (and the local restrictions would make for a dull holiday!) but it’s headed in the right direction

        • meta says:

          7 Oct7 October 17:09

          Seems SQ have gotten worse… Maybe try another agent? They’ve put my tickets on hold until the dates came in range two times. I always talked with the same agent (male) on the UK line.

• Alasdair Jones says:

  7 Oct7 October 14:41

  Hi everyone
  What’s the best time to call the call centre at the moment? I want to upgrade a booking which it won’t let me do in MMB, but every number I’ve tried just hangs up on me after varying amounts of time (Gold line is worst for this – but at least seems to do it instantly). Started calling at 08.30 once I saw the availability but haven’t got through in 10+ attempts.
  And any idea when this service might get back to something like normal??

• Simon says:

  7 Oct7 October 14:42

  Has anyone got any working promo/voucher codes for Virgin Atlantic . I’m a nurse for the nhs have emailed them to see if they offer any kind of discount , been 3 weeks and no reply … any suggestions

  • Andrew says:

    7 Oct7 October 14:56

    As an NHS member of staff, you may have access to PAW, there’s a 1% return on Virgin Atlantic flights and Virgin Holidays. *BUT* It depends on which Trust or company is linked to PAW whether you have access or not.

    Pays to keep an eye on PAW, they used to occasionally do a 12% return – great for when I was booking Upper Class flights to LAX for my boss and Pharma were paying. 😉

    If it’s a Virgin Holiday, you should have a 5% money off voucher stashed in Health Service Discounts, it’s not a generic code I could share.

    • KBuffett says:

      7 Oct7 October 17:13

      Come on Andrew, we know you’re the boss 🙂

• Zoe says:

  7 Oct7 October 14:44

  whats the difference between a virgin companion ticket and a 2-4-1 ticket?

  • Rob says:

    7 Oct7 October 14:50

    You mean between a Virgin and BA one?

    1. The Virgin one can be used on cash or miles tickets (if you have no Virgin status there are caveats to getting a 241 on the cash route, and everyone must pay taxes and charges on the 2nd ticket whether you’re doing a 241 on a cash or miles booking)
    2. The Virgin one can also be used to upgrade 2 x one-way flights

    • Zoe says:

      7 Oct7 October 15:10

      no, theres a free companion voucher which you get from the airline in extreme circumstances and then theres a 2-4-1 voucher which you get from the credit card
      (see two extracts taken from virgins terms and conditions and the other from headforpoints article – i think they are the same thing?)

      Virgin:
      You can choose a reward from:
      Companion Reward Ticket. Take one person with you in a reward seat:
      If you’re a Silver or Gold member when you book the companion reward seat won’t cost any points.
      If you’re a Red member when you book, the companion seat won’t cost any points in Economy Classic and Premium, or you’ll get a 50% reduction in the points needed for Upper.

      Headforpoints:
      The vouchers could be used for three things:

      a 2-4-1 deal on Virgin Flying Club redemptions – this got you two redemption flights for the miles of one (taxes and charges apply to both, Virgin Atlantic aircraft only) BUT there were restrictions on the class you could book
      an upgrade voucher valid for 1 x return flight or 2 x one-way flights BUT valid only for upgrades from Economy to Premium
      a voucher for Virgin Atlantic Clubhouse lounge access, if you were flying Virgin Atlantic in Economy or Premium

      • Roy says:

        7 Oct7 October 15:53

        Isn’t companion voucher just the new name for 2-4-1 voucher, after they got in trouble with advertising standards?

• Matt says:

  7 Oct7 October 15:06

  Both my partner and I have IHG black creation. Both cards have been linked to curve previously. No letters for either of us. Other post is arriving ok, and our address is correct with Creation. Never used the cards for MS. Hopefully I can retain the cards but judging by the comments that looks unlikely?

  • John says:

    7 Oct7 October 15:10

    No letter for me either (yet?). I linked my IHG Card to Curve and did the odd cash withdrawal but have never used either for NS&I. As with you, other post has been arriving fine, maybe we’re lucky?!

    Have started looking at alternative cards should it the IHG Card be closed. I’m not keen on a Virgin Card so I’m looking at options…

    • Roy says:

      7 Oct7 October 19:21

      Remember that you can exchange Virgin miles/points for IHG points 1:1 or Hilton points 2:3 (albeit with a 10,000 mile minimum).

  • Andrew says:

    7 Oct7 October 15:10

    Given that the new applications have been down for maintenance for a week now, I suspect that Creation is closing down their UK business.

    • Sprout says:

      7 Oct7 October 15:18

      I know little about how credit cards markets work but was wondering what peoples’ thoughts were on the likelihood of IHG finding a new partner if Creation exit? Or is it more likely that they would leave the UK market as well?

      • Rob says:

        7 Oct7 October 15:21

        The market is changing. Virgin has shown there is another model, via full revenue sharing, and issuers have lowered their expected returns from all credit cards.

        • Harry T says:

          7 Oct7 October 15:47

          What’s full revenue sharing?

        • Rob says:

          7 Oct7 October 16:32

          Normally with a co-brand, the airline sells points to the card company. End of.

          VA and VM have created a company they jointly own and jointly share the profits from interest, FX fees, annual fees etc. I imagine the price paid per mile is quite low because of this.

        • Harry T says:

          7 Oct7 October 19:12

          @Rob thank you, makes sense. Reassuring that Virgin cards might be around for a while, based on that more sustainable model.

  • Roy says:

    7 Oct7 October 15:56

    Same for me. Used with Curve for Google Pay – was used regularly – as my main form of non-Amex spend in bricks-and-mortar stores. No NS&I, no MS, no cash withdrawals. Not received a letter, so hoping I’m still OK…

    • John says:

      7 Oct7 October 18:01

      It certainly doesn’t seem to tally up with the ‘Creation is exiting the UK’ argument

      • Rob says:

        7 Oct7 October 19:18

        It’s not. They are just chopping all Curve and Revolut owners.

        • John says:

          7 Oct7 October 19:27

          But they aren’t, because I as well as the different John above have used Curve but no MS, and haven’t received closure letters.

        • Joints&Piles says:

          7 Oct7 October 20:12

          Revolut now as well? Bizarre. Instead of categorising cash-like transactions as cash, or taking it up with Curve and Revolut, they kick out customers like me with typically >£20k genuine annual spend who have happily paid the annual fee for years. Kick out, hang onto 9 months-worth of annual fee and withhold a rightfully earned free night certificate.

        • Harrier25 says:

          7 Oct7 October 20:46

          With all due respect Rob, you seem as clueless as the rest of us regarding Creation and just stoking the fire with comments like that. You should know better. Let us speculate and you feed us the facts. Thanks

        • Rob says:

          7 Oct7 October 21:51

          Er, no.

          A reader’s partner works in the Creation call centre and he sent me the memo that the call centre staff received.

        • The Savage Squirrel says:

          7 Oct7 October 22:00

          Although do bear in mind that there’s a long long long history of company staff being fed misinformation then finally told at the last possible second if a company is closing or exiting a market; the reason for this should be obvious – do it any further in advance than you have to and they all look for new jobs and leave before you’re ready for this to happen.

        • Roy says:

          7 Oct7 October 22:32

          If they’re chopping Revolut users too, that might explain some of the non-Curve-using customers who also received the cancellation letter, although some of them really don’t sound like the type to have been using Revolut that way, either.

          But we still don’t have an explanation as to why so many Curve users with otherwise reliable postal service still haven’t received the letter yet…

      • Lady London says:

        7 Oct7 October 21:28

        Cleaning up then selling the book?

        • Lady London says:

          7 Oct7 October 21:31

          Don’t worry Joints&Piles they won’t get away with keeping the full annual fee, they won’t get away without awarding all free nights earned and intelligently presented they will legally have to compensate partially earned free nights pro rata as well.

        • Lady London says:

          7 Oct7 October 21:34

          I’m buying JDB a drink at the next HfP do if that doesn’t happen (assuming enough people go after them properly)

        • Roy says:

          7 Oct7 October 22:38

          Or selling Creation, lock, stock and barrel?

        • Harrier25 says:

          7 Oct7 October 23:15

          It’s becoming a bit of a toxic brand now though.

• Sina says:

  7 Oct7 October 15:20

  We have two cards as well and didn’t get any letters, although we both did mild NS&I. I didn’t get the SMS either but my wife did.

• Imran says:

  7 Oct7 October 15:22

  Looks like Expert Medical is not listed on the UK Government website anymore. So if I book a Day 2 test with them, will it still be valid for adding it to my PLF?

  • Anna says:

    7 Oct7 October 15:32

    Yes, it’s irrelevant whether it’s on the government list.

    • Imran says:

      7 Oct7 October 15:37

      Thanks Anna. IIIRC weren’t they under investigation recently? Just want to make sure I am paying the right company to give me the test reference number to put on PLF.

      Also, I see the cheapest Day 2 test is Expert Medical which is £29. I am a bit rusty on the subject, but is there a Day 2 test cheaper than this?

      Thank you very much for your help.

      • Paul says:

        7 Oct7 October 15:39

        that’s the cheapest i could find, bought it yesterday.

  • Craig says:

    7 Oct7 October 18:20

    Worked fine for me, tests arrived, worked on the PLF. Went in the post yesterday, no results yet.

• MKB says:

  7 Oct7 October 15:40

  Checking into the Fairmont Bermuda shortly. I think I probably should have booked via Emyr rather than Amex Fine Hotels and Resorts, as I want to settle some or all of my bill using Fairmont gift vouchers. I’m expecting to be told that the room rate must be on an Amex.

  I’m thinking the best strategy might be not to mention the gift vouchers at check-in, and have them credited to my account mid-stay. Thoughts?

  • Harry T says:

    7 Oct7 October 15:48

    If you can produce the Amex you used to book it, that might help.

  • Sam G says:

    7 Oct7 October 16:23

    they might only want the vouchers at check out anyway? The night before check out is usually best time to go and deal with your bill I find to allow a swift check out in the morning. Can’t imagine them being bothered as long as there is an Amex in the mix and even then it seems to rely on the hotel procedure rather than any controls

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