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The HfP chat thread – Wednesday 6th October

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Comments (560)

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  • Stephen says:
    6 Oct6 October 13:25

    Looking to submit a MCOL against Virgin Atlantic for cancelled ANA reward flights (unfortunately been cancelled 4 times). Previously, I’ve accepted that in order to re-book they need ANA reward seat availability, but I believe this is not the case based on advise on here.

    I wanted to ask has anyone had their Virgin Flying Club account or other mileage account closed following a MCOL?

    • Richie says:
      6 Oct6 October 13:35

      BTW If it’s re-routing at a later date then it’s subject to seat availability.

      • Stephen says:
        6 Oct6 October 14:33

        The problem is ANA give a very limited reward seat availability to Virgin, which usually is snapped up 1 year in advance, so Virgin are unable to re-book me onto a comparable flight

        ANA decided to add in a replacement flights for one of the three bookings, which Virgin can re-confirm, but will not do so for the other two bookings

      • meta says:
        6 Oct6 October 14:40

        @Richie It’s not subject to availability of reward seats, any availability! If there is a ticket for cash, then they have to give it to you. The courts have ruled on this numerous times.

      • Lady London says:
        6 Oct6 October 14:47

        not by law it’s not, Richie. Not if it departs from Europe/UK, at least.

    • Sam G says:
      6 Oct6 October 13:38

      I think you need to MCOL ANA – Virgin are just the travel agent effectively here and nothing they can do without award seats or ANA co-operation

      I recently got Avianca to put some new flights inside the booking that Turkish Airlines could then go ahead and reticket, might be something to try?

      • Sam G says:
        6 Oct6 October 13:40

        you are right though – EU 261 applies to ANA on flights leaving the EU so you are entitled to a reroute at your convenience – just the tricky matter of actually enforcing it!

        • Stephen says:
          6 Oct6 October 14:34

          Thank you, will send it to ANA instead.

          I’m worried they will say as you booked through a 3rd party, changes need to be processed by them, so they’ll just be passing me around in a circle?

          • meta says:
            6 Oct6 October 14:41

            You can also put Virgin Atlantic on the claim alongside ANA and then they can either sort it out themselves or the court will decide for them.

          • Lady London says:
            6 Oct6 October 14:51

            Yes they will try that. Had that before with 2 other airlines. That’s why you send Letter Before Action to both jointly, Then you MCOL both jointly as defendants. One of them is liable and if necessary the court will sort it out.

            If you only sue one, such as we’re fairly aware ANA is by far more likely to be liable as the operating airline, you run the risk that on some tiny point your claim gets thrown out. Well if ANA isn’t liable then Virgin is. So to save that risk (as some situations can be very grey even though overall EU261 is an excellent robustly drafted statute) you sue both. Then judge has to decide as there is no way any other party than one of those two, is liable.

            So belt and braces even if there’s the slightest chance a different party could be liable (eg travel agent) include them as a defendant in any claim and any official correspondence you send them leading up to the claim.

            This stops the fingerpointing that will be indulged in by airlines particularly in the case of award tix.

    • ChasP says:
      6 Oct6 October 13:59

      your beef (or rather your MCOL) is with ANA
      I had a similar problem with Air France (booked with Virgin) After advice here sent a Letter Before Action gave them 10 days to their legal dept and copied to CEO. All sorted 9 days later

      • meta says:
        6 Oct6 October 14:42

        Yes, that’s a good advice. Don’t deal with useless CS departments. I now go directly to legal departments for any irregularities. It’s sorted much sooner.

        • Stephen says:
          6 Oct6 October 15:10

          Thank you, how do you find the best address to serve this to? Virgin Atlantic address is fine but can’t seem to find All Nippon UK address

          • meta says:
            6 Oct6 October 16:06

            Start with Companies House under find companies. If you can find an email address for ANA’s legal department/CEO even in Tokyo, do that first as they might sort you out without having to go through all the MCOL trouble.

          • Rob says:
            6 Oct6 October 16:31

            Can’t be that hard, they employ quite a few management people in the UK. Rhys and I were with them last week.

  • AL says:
    6 Oct6 October 13:39

    Booking a PCR test to fly this weekend. Does test certificate need to show flight details? Test provider have a box asking for detail – not sure this is needed, though? Flights not yet booked (long separate story!).

  • SwissJim says:
    6 Oct6 October 13:54

    Apologies, quick reminder please. How far out will BA reschedule cancelled flights? Have 16/10 – 22/10 where they cancelled 22/10 and have re-booked me (not accepted) onto 23/10. Can I (with or without a fight…) move this to 16/10/22 – 22/10/22 (I appreciate this means flying on different days of the week). If so, as this is >355 days out do I have to phone up and ask them to do this for me (and ensure the wait)? It’s the outbound flight I think that needs to be flown within 12 months (which technically may be 15/10/22…), not the return from the return (i.e. so we could extend beyond 22/10/22 if we wanted). Thanks.

    • Sam G says:
      6 Oct6 October 14:01

      from comments here recently they’ve reverted to outbound within 12 months of date of booking not date of original travel, which will scupper you. You’ve got the additional complexity of your outbound booking not being cancelled which risks a no-show which adds a further headache as your dates won’t be on sale for 2022 until after you are due to have left

      You can try Twitter DM as I’ve seen some successful reports on here recently about them managing to do it- firstly ask them to remove the segments from the ticket for now and note your dates in the booking that you want. Then once they’re on sale you can DM them again and have it rebooked.

      If not then it is your EU261 right to get rebooked onto a date of your convenience & it seems that CEDR or MCOL will get them to do this for you without a fight

    • Lady London says:
      6 Oct6 October 14:55

      The short answer is that BA will reschedule flights voluntarily within 12 months or your original outbound, or involuntarily when you send a Letter Before Action to their Legal Department, and then do an MCOL claim online if BA’s Legal Department don’t make BA’s Customer Services see sense within the 14 days or so that your Letter Before Action gave them to provide you the date you chose for rerouting of your flight that they cancelled in accordance with your rights under EU261 and equivalent UK legislation.

    • Swiss Jim says:
      6 Oct6 October 16:33

      Ok thanks both. Guess I cancel, re-book 355 days out. Fingers crossed though don’t see an issue.

    • Lady London says:
      6 Oct6 October 17:02

      No, just wait till you see both the outbound and return flights that you now want available for booking with cash.

      Then call BA and ask for them based on the fact that they cancelled a flight on your booking.

      if they refuse just Letter Before Action giving 14 days then MCOL.

      don’t cancel, at all, if BA cancelled your flight.
      That’s what they want you to do, as mostly rebooking you according to your rights will cost them more. Sometimes much , much more. Sometimes they may even be legally required to book you on another airline.
      So of course they’d love to deny you your rights, frighten you and bully you into taking a refund. Or better yet, an FTV.

      You do not have to decide what you want and you don’t have to achieve getting what you want, by the date of your current booking that has a cancelled flight on it.
      If the cancelled flight is the first one on the booking, then you can make things easier administratively later, when they are giving you the dates that you want, which they will legally have to, if you kindly call them and tell them you won’t be on that flight as they’ve cancelled a flight on your booking and you will let them know your choices when you’ve had time to replan.

      Then follow the steps much advised on here, by several of us, almost every day.

  • pauline says:
    6 Oct6 October 14:10

    sorry as I know this has probably been asked before but has anyone used the Express Test Antigen Lateral Flow test for mainland portugal? Its not clear if this is an accepted provider. thanks

    • Will_ says:
      6 Oct6 October 14:27

      I used Express Test last week at Gatwick for Portugal and it was fine.

    • TGLoyalty says:
      6 Oct6 October 14:32

      Anyone except for NHS is accepted?

      • TJ says:
        6 Oct6 October 19:09

        That’s my understanding too. Theoretically, the manufacturer (not provider) should be on EU common list of antigen tests but I don’t think anyone is delving deep into this. I’m using cheap & cheerful Chronomic for a flight to Lisbon this weekend (albeit the manufacturer – Healgen Scientific – is on the list).

  • Zara says:
    6 Oct6 October 14:22

    Does anybody know how to get hold of someone at the passport office? Their lines constantly keep you waiting and then take a mobile number but I haven’t had a call back or anything. Am a tad worried about my application!

    • JDB says:
      6 Oct6 October 14:30

      You should be able to track your application online and event if you were able to speak to a human, I don’t think they will be able to give you more info than the online tracker.

    • Rich says:
      6 Oct6 October 14:33

      What does the tracker show? I submitted one for a family member nearly 5 weeks ago.

      Only one update – that they had received the old passport. Still waiting for the new one. No rush in her case, but it seems pretty slow.

      • Zara says:
        6 Oct6 October 14:41

        My online application is now near 6 weeks and no update apart from
        It saying documents received. I therefore applied for a fast track 1 week application and went yesterday. Apparently it should come within a week but because there is another in the system it might slow it down or cause issues. I had written to withdraw the online but it seems they take up to 2 weeks to receive post at the moment.

        • Zara says:
          6 Oct6 October 14:42

          …So I really wanted to call and check that the fast track was “on track” or if there would be issues. I’ve given up hope on the online one.

        • Rich says:
          6 Oct6 October 14:44

          The post room is definitely overwhelmed. It took 9 days from when they received the old passport until they got round to sending a notification.

          • FatherOfFour says:
            6 Oct6 October 16:03

            Not the news I wanted… posted a child renewal off today, needed back for 25th. Complete fail on our part. 1/6 passports out of date – realised after booking the tunnel.
            No “Fast Track” appointments available in the south until 19th.

      • JDB says:
        6 Oct6 October 14:44

        It usually shows, after receipt, that it has joined the processing queue and later once the application has been approved, followed by despatch. In late Aug we had one back within 2 ½ weeks. I did it at the Post Office which some say is a waste of time/money but has always worked for us.

    • thehornets says:
      6 Oct6 October 18:41

      I received a passport back today. Took one week for their post room to deal with it and four further weeks to arrive on my doorstep.

    • Harley says:
      6 Oct6 October 19:50

      0300 123 1973 is there more senior CSAs who talk more sense. They should be able to advise- had lots of contact with them last month. If anyone has the BA legal email address in return would be much obliged

  • Cambridge Dad says:
    6 Oct6 October 14:24

    ‘Data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show that in August only 45 per cent of UK residents arriving from abroad thought a Covid test was very important for safety, down from 73 per cent in February. This marks the first month that the proportion of UK residents who think testing is very important for safety fell below 50 per cent, indicating a shift in public opinion.’ From today’s DT.

    I bet you September’s data will show a figure closer to 30%. Personally, I can’t see any point whatsoever in testing travellers from green countries after they arrive in UK (by all means, stop them travelling if they have it before the flight): if they have Covid-19, so be it – there won’t be *more* of them bringing Covid-19 into UK as a % compared to the % of non-travellers spreading Covid-19 ie people already in the UK. Same sort of risk. And don’t say it identifies dangerous variants: there aren’t (and probably won’t be) any new variants more dangerous than Delta, which seems to be a lot more infectious but a lot less dangerous in lethality than previous variants.

    • TGLoyalty says:
      6 Oct6 October 14:35

      Don’t trust these surveys as far as I can throw them.

      I recently saw one which had a choice of 2 yes and 1 don’t know answers … you couldn’t even say no!

      • JDB says:
        6 Oct6 October 14:56

        The figures may be wrong but the trend is probably right. It’s clear that public opinion on covid has changed a lot – earlier in the year there was still a very large proportion of the population wanting eternal lockdown, whereas now most want to try and get on with life as best we can. The government took quite a big political risk, against the popular view, by unlocking but a lot more people are probably quite pleased now.

    • Rich says:
      6 Oct6 October 14:39

      You don’t hear so much about VOC nowadays – I don’t know if that’s because mutations have cooled off, or we’ve just lost interest because vaccines are still highly protective against them. I don’t agree that we can completely ignore the threat of them though.

      I tend to agree with you on the rest. We are transitioning to an endemicity (we’re not there yet) so there is less and less benefit to testing travellers.

    • Blair says:
      6 Oct6 October 14:42

      Data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) will also show that in October only 5 per cent of UK residents thought a Curve card was very important, down from 73 per cent in September

    • Aston100 says:
      6 Oct6 October 15:37

      “there aren’t (and probably won’t be) any new variants more dangerous than Delta”

      Are you a subject matter expert, or did you hear it from a bloke down the pub?

    • Tracey says:
      6 Oct6 October 17:10

      Delta seems to be winning all battles against every other variant so far. So there may be more dangerous variants in terms of how ill you can get, but delta is ahead of the curve in spread. Someone posted some nice graphs on Twitter, but I can’t recall who, every new variant that has emerged has been quashed by delta.

      • Rob says:
        6 Oct6 October 17:23

        It’s in the Gridpoint Consulting article.

        You would imagine this is positive – if Delta is ‘it’ then a tweaked vaccine specifically designed to whack it should be effective.

  • Jody says:
    6 Oct6 October 15:02

    We’ve randomly decided we might be in the market for an electric car. Going to test drive the VW ID3, Skoda Enyaq and the Kia E-niro. Anyone got any real life pros/cons of these vehicles please? Tesla is a bit out of the budget.

    Currently deciding whether to buy outright or go leasehold as well (something I’ve never ever considered before, but I can see how the figures make it look appealing). Seems to be a few places I can get discounts on both these things with my blue light card.

    I know someone asked similar a while ago, I didn’t take much notice as we (ok, me!) weren’t thinking about it then.

    • Jim says:
      6 Oct6 October 15:22

      Leasing is the way forward, particularly if you like to drive a new car every 2-4 years. I’ve used Central UK and Select Car for several cars on PCH and found them to be very good. They both usually have offers, which can be amazing value. For example, BMW M135i for £290 /month…

      • Jody says:
        6 Oct6 October 15:32

        I would drive a car until it dies, but I feel with an electric car that isn’t the most sensible idea because of battery life. Will take a look at the companies you mentioned, thank you.

        Would be mainly my husband driving it. I’ll be in the market for a cheap runaround (and I mean cheap, as in a bit of a banger). I do very low mileage – my Nissan Juke that I bought outright 4 years ago has only got 8.5k on the clock (bought it 3 months before I was medically retired from work). However, 2nd hand car values seem to be a bit mad, I paid £14k for it and have been offered £11.6k at one of these we buy whatever car type places (have done a few quotes) which seems too good to be true, so thinking I’m going to sell it before the value massively drops.

        Husband’s car has dropped more in value than mine, surprising as he has a Honda Civic which I thought was miles better than a juke, but his mileage is more in line for where it should be at 5 years old. Still worth nearly £10k at some of these places though, maybe more if part-exchanged in, so it’s made us reconsider our car options quite dramatically.

      • Toaster says:
        6 Oct6 October 15:33

        But how much is initial deposit and admin fee to get that £290 per month? Total cost over term is what counts, you can get the monthly fee to near nothing if you pay thousands up front.

        • Lady London says:
          6 Oct6 October 17:09

          Plus on returning the car, you need to be very, very careful as some providers seem to be quite picky on car condition – all of which has charges potentially added, of course

          Someone working for a major car mfr dealing with a lot of lease customers said it can be quite a good idea always to change car before the end of the lease and get a new one – then you are in a stronger position apparently

    • Rich says:
      6 Oct6 October 15:30

      Not driven those, but I’ve had the e-208 and Zoe. The ones you are looking at have good range and charging speed. I’d recommend the ev-database website to compare nerdy figures, including real-world range in winter. Have a real think about how much range you *need* on a day to day basis, vs once a month or a few times a year. Don’t pay for range you don’t need.

      The Kia is well-established. The VW has had a few teething troubles, but I think sorted out now.

      I will add a little plug for the company I get mine from – Onto. Rent by the month and you can try out a few different cars before you commit – price includes everything including charging. £50 off your first month if you use my code be53a 😉

    • Simon says:
      6 Oct6 October 15:32

      While I have leased many times, and am a big fan…..there are drawbacks. We had a car stolen off our driveway. The pay out is very very different, as you dont technically own the car, and it took 2 years and long Ombudsman case to get a fair pay out…. (short version – lease company owns the car, so no VAT on my claim, you what??). Also, you must factor in £500-£1000 to tidy up the car for its inspection when you give it back. Any scuff on alloys or panels will be charged for……

      • Jody says:
        6 Oct6 October 15:35

        Yikes, that sounds well dodgy. Glad you did eventually get paid out.

    • Aston100 says:
      6 Oct6 October 15:39

      I would go for the Enyaq. Ticks many boxes including a decent sized boot; good range; capacity to seat 5 adults reasonably well; has a few physical buttons unlike the horrible all touch screens seen in VW cars.

      • Jody says:
        6 Oct6 October 15:45

        I’m all about physical buttons and low tech, my husband is totally the opposite! Have read about the touch screens being crash prone in VW, so will see. We’re test driving all 3 at the weekend.

        Just from what I’ve read and seen on videos, the Enyaq is currently my favourite, but that could all chance on driving.

        • Andrew (@andrewseftel) says:
          6 Oct6 October 18:30

          We looked at the Enyaq but were quoted a lead time of 6-8 months so didn’t take it further.

    • Aston100 says:
      6 Oct6 October 15:40

      Oh yeah, nearly forgot, there are barely any deals on PCH and there haven’t been any for quite some time.

    • Tonyb says:
      6 Oct6 October 16:00

      I leased an eNiro through my business, the BIK rate and claiming the VAT back made it a no brainier. I didn’t know what to expect but absolutely love it. So do my petrol head friends who initially took the p**s out of me for getting one!

    • Neil says:
      6 Oct6 October 16:02

      Have a look at Electric Vehicle Man on YouTube as I think he has reviewed all 3 on your list.

    • Kevin C says:
      6 Oct6 October 16:17

      We’ve had an E-Niro for nearly a year. It’s been great. I think there are cooler cars out there but it has worked for us really well. Not driven the other ones. Ours is on a business lease.

    • Lady London says:
      6 Oct6 October 17:05

      Can you get an electric car on the Mobility Scheme? that would probably make it highly affordable.

      • Jody says:
        6 Oct6 October 17:10

        Sadly, in spite of mobility issues, I don’t qualify for the benefit that would enable me to get a car under that scheme.

    • Biki says:
      6 Oct6 October 17:23

      If you are considering leasing a fully electric car, it is worth seeing if your employer has or will set up a salary sacrifice car lease scheme. Companies like Tusker will manage it all for them and it saves you whatever your tax rate is. Currently BIK tax is only 1% on fully electric cars, so it makes it quite atractive if you are a higher rate tax payer

    • Memesweeper says:
      6 Oct6 October 19:29

      On.to offer good short term lease/long term rent deals. Think of it as try before you buy, but in our case we’ve never got round to buying, just roll the lease over each month.

  • WTL says:
    6 Oct6 October 15:12

    I’ve just received a letter from Creation stating that my card limit has been increased…… what exactly is the point of this is if you are cancelling my card?

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