Creation cancelling credit cards which have been used with a Curve Card

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• Jason Wiltshire says:

  2 Oct2 October 09:03

  This is good riddance.

  I applied for the free card and never got the welcome points. It took a claim to FOS and 6 months before I got them. Service is incredibly poor.

• patrick C says:

  2 Oct2 October 09:18

  I mean targeting consumers like this is obvious pure discrimination and of it is true that ns&i had anything to do with this, they should also be reprimanded as it pure abuse of power.
  I mean you can criticise the MS topic all day long, but these actions are substantially worse and set a terrible precedent…

  • JDB says:

    2 Oct2 October 09:44

    Discrimination in law only relates to certain “protected characteristics” none of which apply here. As for suggesting that NS&I has in any away abused some power you suggest they have, that is quite absurd. NS&I has been the victim of a scam it is now slowly shutting down which all taxpayers should welcome.

    • simonbr says:

      2 Oct2 October 10:33

      I cannot understand why you think the NS&I or the taxpayer have been victim of any scam. I bought premium bonds with bona fide savings having closed down a crummy Santander 123 account which stopped paying interest, just I paid for them via Curve metal & IHG so I got some hotel points. As far as I’m concerned I paid annual fees to use these cards and did nothing wrong.

      • Blenz101 says:

        2 Oct2 October 10:46

        NS&I could not be clearer that you have to use a UK issued DEBIT card registered to the same home address as your NS&I account.

        You should not have been able to collect hotel points on the transaction.

        The fact is NS&I have been picking up huge processing fees for the past few years on a dodgy fintech product which first set out to get around the interchange cap by being for ‘business use’ but was a free for all. It also cuts card providers out of revenue streams including ATM withdrawals and Forex fees.

        The points were paid for by someone and the party is now over.

        • TGLoyalty says:

          2 Oct2 October 11:04

          They did use a U.K. Issued Debit card! You can only use a curve DEBIT card.

        • John says:

          2 Oct2 October 12:00

          Curve is a debit card, and it certainly has to be registered to the same home address.

          I moved house shortly after the first lockdown and didn’t think about updating my address with Curve, as online shopping using my new address worked.

          However ernie deposits failed once I had changed my ernie address. I thought they had worked out how to block curve, but after a while I realised that I had to change my curve address and then it worked again.

        • Blenz101 says:

          2 Oct2 October 12:07

          Come on TGLoyalty, a debit card that passes the transaction straight to a points earning credit card is hardly what they meant.

          I’ve been rinsing NS&I with my Tesco account for years so am one of the guilty here. I am just more accepting that the game always ends and it is just business rather than discrimination.

        • Blenz101 says:

          2 Oct2 October 12:31

          Rui N – what is so complicated? By using Curve with NS&I and having it backed by a credit card you are manufacturing spend. It was effectively paying a credit card limit directly into savings and withdrawing it as cash. No credit card I am aware of allows you to do this without significant fees and interest from day 1. Curve masked this and earned points at the same time. It was never genuine retail which is what the card was intended for.

          The IHG card if used directly with NS&I would fail – no points would be awarded.

          NS&I do not allow the use of credit cards. Using a product that masks true nature of a transaction is not something either Amex or Creation will tolerate.

          If I use my Tesco debit card directly I do earn points. This is allowed. Tesco agree to award 1 point per 8 spent on debit.

      • JDB says:

        2 Oct2 October 11:03

        You may not have been part of the ‘scam’ so it is unfortunate that you have suffered the consequences of the actions of others. However, you did know NS&I doesn’t accept credit cards and used a card to bypass that; nothing intrinsically wrong, but the various providers can choose what for them constitutes misuse and/or customers they don’t want. The taxpayer has in many cases paid the extra fees for repeated deposits of essentially the same funds and even higher fees if a commercial card was used that shouldn’t have been used at all.

        • Rui N. says:

          2 Oct2 October 14:00

          @Blenz101, so apparently you can indeed get points from using NS&I…at least you didn’t accuse Tesco of malfeasance now, that’s an improvement.
          And again, since apparently you refuse to acknowledge this, Curve does not mask anything and hasn’t done so for several years. Stop spreading misinformation.

    • Char Char says:

      2 Oct2 October 10:38

      JDB clearly has some bias here…..

      There was no scam

      • JDB says:

        2 Oct2 October 11:05

        @ char char – Try putting that case to HMT and the FCA!

      • JDB says:

        2 Oct2 October 11:14

        I have no bias but in the excitement of yesterday people seem to have lost their powers of rational thought. A ‘loophole’ has been closed and if the outcome is just that your account is closed, that is a major result for the players. All the ideas of ‘compensation’ for loss of opportunity/chance are just fanciful and in some cases will lead to exposure of what was really going on. I very much doubt Creation has acted alone here.

        • John says:

          2 Oct2 October 12:03

          None of that makes it a scam, nor have most people lost rational thought.

          They did not stipulate that for example the debit card had to belong to the same bank account as you linked for withdrawals.

  • WillPS says:

    2 Oct2 October 09:46

    What I’m not understanding is how NS&I would know what the source of the funds was. They get a debit card payment from Curve. There is no way of definitively knowing which underlying card is used for each transaction, so what basis does NS&I have for going after any of them?

    In any case, if they don’t like the fact Curve can be used in this way they could block payments from Curve by blocking Curve’s BINs. Plenty of other savings providers seem to do exactly that.

    • JDB says:

      2 Oct2 October 09:58

      NS&I can observe the higher deposit acquisition costs and the round tripping transactions that raise AML concerns and generate SARs which then leads to further investigation of the transactions by the authorities. As the government savings bank open to all, blocking certain cards might be seen as making the products less accessible. I’m not sure why they are getting the flack on here now! NS&I may have quite fairly raised the alarm but all the ensuing actions are out of their hands. Creation has simply been the quickest to address the matter.

    • Memesweeper says:

      2 Oct2 October 11:45

      NS&I could have simply looked at accounts being used for constant top ups / withdrawals and banned the associated Curve cards and/or or closed the accounts. Their response is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and is unworthy of a publicly funded body. I will complain and a complaint is justified.

      • John says:

        2 Oct2 October 12:07

        NS&I hasn’t responded publicly.

        I recall some people reporting that NS&I did ask them for source of funds information.

        It is creation that has responded overzealously by banning curve completely rather than just for MS transactions. (But remains to be seen whether they are closing everything or just unprofitable cardholders.)

        The new Chase UK account does not award its 1% return on many MCCs; creation could have done that.

      • JDB says:

        2 Oct2 October 12:39

        NS&I hasn’t done anything to complain about. They have reported a problem and others have addressed that problem.

        • Will says:

          2 Oct2 October 13:57

          I’m with you JDB on this. It’s pretty clear that using credit cards to charge up these accounts breaks the spirit of the rules if not the letter in the way it was done.

          Like most things, had creation treated it early with the tools they had (bam curve transactions, look and underlying codes and apply cash forwarding fees etc) turn it would have not got out of hand.

          Ultimately it’s gone up the chain, someone with half a brain has seen the scale of it and concluded they’re better off without these customers.

          Frankly, we should be grateful it ever existed.

          Double dipping was nic but you can buy IHG points cheaply enough and now they’re moving to variable cash based redemption rates it’s less interesting.

          Also 60 days to print as many points as you possibly can.

      • ankomonkey says:

        2 Oct2 October 14:48

        I agree. NS&I were too lazy/not bothered enough to put anything in place in their IT systems to stop these loopholes like Curve. Creation were also too lazy/not bothered enough to put anything in place in their IT systems to stop these loopholes like Curve. If either company feigns ignorance to practices like this when Curve openly advertised these ‘loopholes’ then their directors of compliance should be fired.

    • the_real_a says:

      2 Oct2 October 16:05

      LOL – they just need to read HfP comments… Don’t forget these are real people in the industry, who have an internet connection and probably read this blog – and when stuff like this is rubbed in their faces by commenters basically boating on a daily basis it becomes impossible NOT to act. That why people who have been around for decades frequently tell people to shut their faces.

• Will says:

  2 Oct2 October 09:21

  It’s amusing how long it took them to sort this out.

  I didn’t do MS but given I was putting business forex spend through it via curve I’m eagerly awaiting the post man.

  Will be missed for double dipping for sure.

• Craig says:

  2 Oct2 October 09:30

  Did anyone receive the letter today rather than yesterday?

  • Chrisasaurus says:

    2 Oct2 October 09:32

    Presumably, yes

  • Will says:

    2 Oct2 October 10:45

    Mine arrived today, dated 30th September, same 3rd December end date as everyone else

• The Savage Squirrel says:

  2 Oct2 October 09:38

  No letter yet. Probably just postal issues.
  The app seems to be down; maybe they’ve shut it to slow things down, as with 60 days to go and nothing to lose, an astonishing level of p*sstaking is likely to ensue 😀

  • BP says:

    2 Oct2 October 10:07

    Apart from Che, are there any other good routes for the remaining time? I plan to overpay with other cards and use Che. If I get shut down early then no big deal.

    • Harrier25 says:

      2 Oct2 October 10:12

      I did ask on page 1 whether anyone had tried the ‘supermarket amber nectar’ MasterCard with Che? I can put up with a few days of interest from time to time, but not cash advance fees.

      • Char Char says:

        2 Oct2 October 10:23

        The amber nectar card has a very poor earning rate that makes you question whether to bother something like 1 point for every £5 spent

      • BillersJ says:

        2 Oct2 October 10:31

        I use my Curve with Lloyds, Sainsbury’s and HSBC credit cards. Never had an issue and all seem to work in terms of points accrued. Just moved lots of HSBC across into Avios with the 25% bonus last month

    • WhoisChe WhoisChe says:

      2 Oct2 October 10:49

      What’s Che? Been trying to figure it out. I feel like I’ve missed out. I’ve just been accepted for the bearded one to replace the mess that is IHG. So there could be a few weeks to maximise points when it arrives.

      • John says:

        2 Oct2 October 12:07

        Revolut

      • Blenz101 says:

        2 Oct2 October 12:10

        Che = Revolut. And for anybody reading your comment where you have also used silly code, bearded = Virgin.

        • rob(staaaar) says:

          3 Oct3 October 01:07

          ta. But wtf is Earnie? Surely not the fastest milk float in the west?

      • Jonathan says:

        2 Oct2 October 14:55

        Enjoy the 5% cash advance fees on your Beardie…

  • Harrier25 says:

    2 Oct2 October 10:08

    The Creation app spends many hours down. Nothing new there. It’s an awful app.
    After their recent actions Creation deserve having the p*ss taken out of them. Here’s to the next 2 months being very expensive for them in IHG points!

    • Rachel Robinson says:

      2 Oct2 October 10:52

      Any tips on how? Now that we can’t use Curve?

    • Anna says:

      2 Oct2 October 10:55

      I’ve not been able to use the Creation app for ages because my phone isn’t modern enough!
      I’m now planning the next 2 months – pay off Creation loan, pay off car finance, party with Che a little, including maxing out the foreign exchange facility and withdraw in Berlin in December for my next 12 months euro spends. Fully intend to get 2 more free nights before the card closes!

• Char Char says:

  2 Oct2 October 10:21

  Seeing as creation let people pay the card off with another credit card that likely wipes out any of their potential profit anyway. Meaning they likely lose 0.6p per £1 spent based on paying for the IHG points…

  • Harrier25 says:

    2 Oct2 October 10:37

    Good to hear!

    • Anna says:

      2 Oct2 October 10:56

      Oh yes. Whatever I get creatively also applies to Paris and Conrad’s empire!

• CB says:

  2 Oct2 October 10:59

  Curve are also putting a £10k annual limit on Curve Fronted transactions for the metal card from the 1st December.

  • Brian W says:

    2 Oct2 October 11:09

    It’s £10k per month.

• SC says:

  2 Oct2 October 11:00

  I called creation customer services this morning and was advised that they are ending the relationship with IHG and all cards are being cancelled, it was t anything I have done with the card. I’ve only used it for purchases and take out some cash via curve occasionally with the £200 they allow.

  • Rob says:

    2 Oct2 October 11:08

    That’s not true.

    • TGLoyalty says:

      2 Oct2 October 11:13

      Perhaps not from 3rd December. Doesn’t mean others won’t receive letters in due time.

      • meta says:

        2 Oct2 October 11:31

        People have reported here that they never used it with Curve or used it for that matter and still got cancellation letter. They’re probably doing it in batches.

        However, I think someone else will take over their portfolio and Creation is actually exiting the UK market.

        • Chrisasaurus says:

          2 Oct2 October 11:34

          When mbna exited the market they sold their book to Lloyds – is creations too small or too niche to have had any saleable value?

    • SteveJ says:

      2 Oct2 October 12:28

      Hi Rob, what makes you so adamant on this? Numerous posts from people with no Curve activity having their cards closed.

      • Jay says:

        2 Oct2 October 13:03

        Look at the history of Creation and their ability to run credit card programmes. In the olden days they ran Wolves, West Bromwich Albion, Sheffield Wednesday, myWorld and other affinity card / store card programmes. All these programmes closed after what could conceivably be the end of the contract term, assuming industry standard of 5 years. The market has changed a lot over the years and only those with deep pockets remain. Based on historic customer base Creation (from their store card days), low customer numbers (by industry standards) and small UK operation, it is highly likely they are either repositioning away from affinity or exiting the UK. Creation in the grand scheme of BNP is tiny. MBNA may have sold their book to Lloyds but by size it is polar opposite to Creation. MBNA were once the largest affinity provider in the UK, Europe and across the US. Creation have a disparate array of cards, with low volume cardholder base and the value will be nominal, even if sold on. It is highly feasible the book is being wind down.

        • BuildBackBetter says:

          2 Oct2 October 13:49

          Market changed due to the interchange fee cap. Look at US – plenty of unknown brands running cards successfully.

      • Rob says:

        2 Oct2 October 15:03

        Because there are plenty of people who have not had their cards closed …

        • Roy says:

          2 Oct2 October 16:51

          But there also seem to be plenty of people who do use Curve who have not (yet) been informed that their card is being closed. I think we need to wait a few days for all the letters to wend their way through the postal system before we will have a clear picture.

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