The HfP chat thread – Sunday 12th September

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• Degsy says:

  12 Sep12 September 08:25

  Has anyone heard anything from Chris H recently? I remember him saying he likes to go completely off grid when he’s on holiday but that feels like weeks ago.

  • BJ says:

    12 Sep12 September 09:24

    Well we’ve heard frequently from Chris H but not from Chris Hayes, hope he’s OK.

• Swiss Jim says:

  12 Sep12 September 08:40

  Quick question on Platinum Amex card please. When you sign up for hotel loyalty schemes, do you get a year (or so..) from date you sign up, or year from date your Amex card was issued? I presume the former, which means it makes no sense signing up until you plan to stay (or just before you plan to cancel the Amex card.!)

  • The Savage Squirrel says:

    12 Sep12 September 08:46

    Just sign up. It’s date of cancellation that matters. In normal times it falls off at the end of the year in which you cancel the Amex (or sometimes not – there is plenty of ropey hotel IT around); when you signed up doesn’t matter. Every scheme has a slightly different year end too so it gets a bit complicated if you’re trying to time things to minimise card holding period.

  • Andrew says:

    12 Sep12 September 08:48

    Most of the hotel programmes operate on a fixed year cycle for status for all members, not like the airlines. So if you earn Hilton gold in say March 2021 you get it for the rest of that year and the whole of the next calendar year. This would apply to an Amex upgrade too.

  • VerdantBacon says:

    12 Sep12 September 09:15

    You get status for the remainder of the earning year (most programs are calendar year) plus status for the full next earning year. So it makes no difference when you get status.

  • Anna says:

    12 Sep12 September 09:16

    My OH got his 2nd Platinum in April after his 2 year break – his HH and Bonvoy gold statuses from first time round still hadn’t elapsed, though that may have been due to Covid extensions!

• SG says:

  12 Sep12 September 08:42

  Morning all
  Been trying to get through BA to change an avios since last night with no luck
  BA executive club cuts you off and the live chat does not come upon the website(even if they advertise it as 24 hours)does anyone know how to get through to them?

  • SteveJ says:

    12 Sep12 September 08:51

    03444930747 works for me, sometimes it cuts you off but most times seems to get you into the queue.

    Also the US lines work great late in the evening (if you have access to Skype or suchlike): +18004521201

    • SG says:

      12 Sep12 September 09:02

      Thanks Steve J

• SG says:

  12 Sep12 September 08:43

  Avios flight..

• Lyn says:

  12 Sep12 September 08:47

  I would be grateful for advice about testing requirements for international connections at Heathrow which require an overnight stay at an airport hotel. Fully vaccinated (but outside the UK) and arriving from an amber country. Probably in October.

  • Bill says:

    12 Sep12 September 08:50

    I think there’s a section on the PLF for transit. Therefore negating the requirements to input test references

    • roberto says:

      12 Sep12 September 09:07

      Correct, you’re exempt.

    • Lyn says:

      12 Sep12 September 09:21

      Thank you very much.

      Is there a way to see or print a copy of the PLF form ahead of time to see what information we’ll need?

      Hopefully it won’t require a smart phone? I only have an old hand-me-down iPhone without a current SIM! (Very useful for its purpose of listening to classical music with a Sonos or Bose speaker but not much else)

      • John says:

        12 Sep12 September 09:40

        You don’t need a SIM to attempt filling in a PLF

• Louie says:

  12 Sep12 September 08:48

  Croatia…. we’re supposed to be doing a gulet holiday in Turkey for the first two weeks of October. Looking at a back up if Turkey stays red on Thursday. Will Croatia (Zatar) be too cold and wet to be enjoyable then? The stats say it’s quite a lot cooler and wetter than Bodrum but the stats don’t always tell the whole story.

  • John says:

    12 Sep12 September 09:41

    I don’t know why anyone goes to Croatia between May and September, Oct is best time IMO

  • Save East Coast Rewards says:

    12 Sep12 September 13:05

    Today I was driving between Italy and Croatia. The climate seems the same as Italy so based on last year October will be fine. It’s nice and warm now. About 29 degrees

  • Darko says:

    12 Sep12 September 18:41

    Zadar is in October out of the summer season and in full autumn swing. For me that’s equivalent of going skiing when there’s no snow on the mountain. Croatian coast is popular June-September because of the summer.Do not be surprised how summer destinations look completely different during autumn/winter as Croatian coast is extremely seasonal and many restaurants/activities simply close when out of season. I lived in Rijeka for 34 years, 200 km northwest following the coast.

• Frankie says:

  12 Sep12 September 08:48

  Hello HFPers.I am hoping you can help me with something this Sunday morning. I thought I knew this game a better than I do…
  I think I blundered yesterday in what I accepted as an outcome from BA so I’m kindly looking for guidance. Using a BA premium plus amex card avios 2 for 1 voucher I was due to fly first class to Phoenix this Friday (17th Sept) and return from Las Vegas on 2nd October club world. I got notification ages ago that my first class cabin was being downgraded to club world as there was not going to be a first class anymore. Then two weeks ago I got notification that my return from Vegas was cancelled. I needed to contact them as the outbound to Phoenix is still flying this coming Friday.
  As I can’t enter the states I called YOU FIRST and asked for the dates to be changed to – outbound to Phoenix on 10th June 2022
  club world (so I accepted the downgrade on the flight but made it clear I wanted a note on the booking saying I was accepting
  an involuntary downgrade) and return from Vegas on 25th June club world (so the same class as my cancelled return flight).
  I know that I need to claim for compensation for the involuntary downgrade after I have flown so nothing I can deal with now.
  However the agent calculated the refund of avios I was entitled to at 10,000 avios, and i think it should be 22,500.
  The agent counted together the combined Avios for both original flights as 147,500 (FIRST, off Peak, London to Phoenix = 85,000
  plus CLUB off peak Vegas to London 62,500) However she then calculated the combined avios for the new flights at 137,500
  (CLUB off peak London to Phoenix 62,500 and CLUB peak Vegas to London 75,000). The difference being 10,000.
  The calculations are correct, but I am thinking the way this was all worked out is incorrect. Shouldn’t both flights have
  been treated and calculated separately. I was downgraded on my outbound to Phoenix from Off Peak FIRST (85,000) and I am
  now on Off Peak CLUB (62,500) so the difference of the downgrade for this leg is 22,500.
  My return from Vegas to London was cancelled. I had used 62,500 avios for this flight which was off peak. My new return is
  peak so 75,000 avios. But surely I should just have been moved to the new flight without any extra avios being charged as
  it was due to my original being cancelled. However in the agent’s calculated of avios that I was due she effectively charged
  me 12,500 avios for changing my cancelled return flight which happened to now be peak (continued below)

  • barnaby100 says:

    12 Sep12 September 10:58

    I am in a similar mess (or rather BA is with similar)

    Booked 1st- downgraded to club as 1st no longer on route then cancelled. Rebooked in 1st via another city. I then had to cancel/move as not allowed into the USA. 50% Avios booking. BA rebooked me in club as no 1st route but took 50,000 extra Avios- told me that it was needed to ticket but that I would get in back by submitting a claim to an address that they provided during the call and that I would also get downgrade compensation before I flew (which I queried numerous times during the conversation). They randomly gave me about £35 cash refund a few weeks later.

    New flight cancelled but they now won’t book me back in 1st. Claim for 50,000 refund was rejected when sent to the address provided. Put in a complaint -the tape was listed too and 50,000 appeared with no contact at all. Now the tape is being transcripted for whether the agent agreed that it was involuntary downgrade-they did as I was the one saying you didn’t get the comp until after flying- as they were saying that I would get it now. They are saying that as I didn’t query receiving the £35 I accepted the downgrade.

    Flight isnt until February but arse and elbow from BA all they way. Many years gold- had over 200 flights cancelled but this whole experience of this one flight has made me decide not to actively seek BA flights moving forward.

  • Jonathan says:

    12 Sep12 September 14:21

    If you took the refund for difference between First & Club before you flew then you won’t get downgrade compo after flight. You needed to refuse any refund before flying.

    • barnaby100 says:

      12 Sep12 September 23:21

      They said that I would numerous times in the call. That is why it is being transcripted apparently.

• Frankie says:

  12 Sep12 September 08:49

  (continued from above as I ran out of space)
  Shouldn’t I be due 22,500 avios in total, if my above thinking is correct? So 22,500 just for the outbound downgrade from First off peak to Club off peak, and I should not have been ‘charged’ 12,500 (or anything) for changing my cancelled flight from an Off Peak to a Peak.
  Also if I am correct do I need to call YOU FIRST back or is this now as customer relations issue?
  Also, as I have accepted the new future flights, am I still permitted (once I have flown) to claim for the proper amount of avios
  compensation for the involuntary downgrade for my outbound from FIRST to CLUB which I think is 75% of the avios paid for that leg?
  Apolgies for the long post regarding this but I think I was diddled in refund of avios because of the way it was calculated
  by the agent. Was I? Any help or guidance on my issue is greatly appreciated. Frankie

  • Dave says:

    12 Sep12 September 08:58

    A little hard to follow but if you are seeking compensation for the downgrade then no avios are due from the club/first difference. That’s what the compensation is for. The rescheduling of the cancelled flight should not cost you and additional avios.

    • Paul says:

      12 Sep12 September 09:11

      Agree with Dave. If as you say you want this treated an involuntary downgrade and seek compensation for that after you fly, you can’t be seeking any refund of the Avios difference now! You should still be paying the First amount, and then claim involuntary downgrade compensation after you flew, if BA were unable to supply that. The cancelled flight should have been changeable with no additional payment. So I’d have expected no refund, no payment at this stage if the eventual downgrade compensation was your goal.

  • SteveJ says:

    12 Sep12 September 08:59

    I have no experience of this but I’d say you’re right. There are two things at play, 1 is rebooking your cancelled flight, the other is dealing with the downgrade. They should’ve done each separately. Suggest trying youfirst.

  • Erico1875 says:

    12 Sep12 September 09:00

    If the Phoenix flight is still flying and you have chosen to change it , I think you will struggle to get 75% downgrade refund. Just the difference in Avios between F and CW

  • Tracey says:

    12 Sep12 September 09:13

    By choosing a flight that doesn’t offer First, I think you are accepting the new flight,so I wouldn’t think involuntary downgrade compensation applies. You are choosing the rebooking dates, so if you want First you need to book a flight that offers First.
    As for your calculation versus BA, the fact it is a return booking as you used 241, may mean their calculation is right, but I’m less certain on this.

  • AJA says:

    12 Sep12 September 14:10

    @Frankie I don’t understand why you were even charged any Avios. BA cancelled your return flight. If that was booked on the same PNR as the outbound that means you should be able to reroute on any flight operating the same classes of travel up to 1 year from date of outbound flight, regardless of reward seat availability (assuming that BA’s July amendment to ticket validity is still policy, there are reports BA has changed the goal posts again back to 1 year from original booking). This would have avoided any calculations involving Avios.

    What BA appears to have done is effectively cancelled your flights and booked you new reward flights only in Club on the dates you’ve agreed to. This has resulted in a repricing and charging extra due to peak pricing hence the overall refund you’ve been given. I suspect that you have a new PNR booking reference. If this is the case you’re stuffed.

    As regards First to Club downgrade it is NOT compensation but a REFUND of fare and should have been 75% of the cost of the 1st class fare refunded after the actual downgrade happened ie after you have flown. Never, ever, say compensation in the calls. Always refer to it as a refund.

  • Lady London says:

    12 Sep12 September 14:17

    Even though you’d upfront made it clear you accepted the involuntary downgrade but made a point of asking them to note on the booking that it was involuntary, the agent went ahead and without you asking them, calculated avios and told you you’d get a refund of the avios difference?

    Assuming you didn’t ask for any refund full or partual, but just made a point of asking for a note that you were accepting it on involuntary downgrade basis, then you’d made it clear to any knowledgeable observer that you intended to fly that flight and claim the compensatory reimbursement EU261 entitled you to.

    It seems either an incompetent BA agent, or alternatively a very competent BA agent realizing the cost to BA if you accurately claimed downgrade compensation, then proceeded to muddy the waters and refund the avios difference which could look like you’d accepted a partial settlement or even voluntarily accepted the downgrade thus removing your right to claim the full 75% compensation after the flight had been flown.

    Had you claimed the 75% downgrade compensation (the APD and airport charges element of ‘taxes’ being removed before the 75% calculation) I am sure you would have claimed at BA’s selling rate of 1.6p per avios, rather rhan for the avios back, as guessing you most likely would have no need for further avios. And noting that for a 241 the 75% is calculated based on the first seat, then added at the same rate for the second seat.

    The reason dates were changed on your booking was because BA cancelled any one of your flights. So all changes of flight either way – from Peak to OffPeak or vice versa – should have resulted in no extra charge or avios and no refund of cash or avios. (If prices had decreased you could have got the difference back by choosing the refund right instead of the rerouting right and then done a new booking as a separate transaction thus pocketing the difference.) So as you were rerouting there was no case for avios nor any cash to be returned to you. Nor should you have asked for it. If you asked then the BA agent should really have said “no it’s not necessary because you are rerouting on the basis of our cancellation” but I do not know how far this would carry you on an mcol claim.

    Provided you made a point of asking again for First on your replacement outbound to Phoenix I think the fact that it’s an involuntary downgrade should stand. There wasn’t any chance of you getting First because I’m pretty sure BA has removed First …

    • Lady London says:

      12 Sep12 September 14:30

      …completely from that route. But I’d have asked to make the point and keep my acceptance involuntary even if I knew this.

      I agree you should have dealt with the involuntary downgrade and the rerouting separately ideally. You may have kept them separate enough on the same call though.

      Chasing after any refund of avios now would be the worst thing you can do. Closely followed in worstness by having asked for it in the first place.

      You could call up and ask them to check you were booked back into First on your flight next year. When they say no and it’s not available then you can say oh that’s why you didn’t then and ask them to check that the note about the downgrade being reluctantly accepted and involuntary is still on the PNR. If any mention is made of refund or pending refund of avios you can express your puzzlement as you rerouted to new dates following their cancellation and had not really understood why a calculation of avios being refunded was being made.

      If you’re unsure how the conversation went with the agent you do have a right under GDPR to request a copy of the recording. If they refuse or say it’s lost note this.

      I’d still submit a claim for inv downgr after the flight, I would probably even mcol if refused. But it’s possible the claim is muddier now depending on how the first call went.

      Please let us know how it goes after your flight and claim.

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