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The HfP chat thread – Tuesday 10th August

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Comments (412)

This article is closed to new posts. Discussion continues in the HfP Forums.

  • den says:
    10 Aug10 August 13:35

    Would anyone with experience of calling up to add the return leg of a 2-4-1 voucher when seating is made available 355 days out know if the taxes are equalised if you call up? I managed to bag 2x one way CW tickets to Vancouver next July for ~£800 using 2-4-1, for the return Rob’s article from last year on booking the return online and then claiming avios refund at T-355 days states:

    “Thirdly, and most importantly, BA does not equalise your taxes. The taxes you pay via this method are 2 x one-way flights instead of 1 x return flight. ”

    So if you book online the taxes are not equalised and I’m looking at ~£1600 for the 2x return tickets, if I call up do they equalise the taxes so that its more like ~£1200 return for the pair of us? Appreciate I have probably worded this question terribly but any input would be appreciated.

    • Sam G says:
      10 Aug10 August 13:47

      If you call it’ll be recalculated and re ticketed at the correct return rate of taxes and charges

      Only if you book it yourself online and call in to get the Avios adjusted will the taxes remain the same. As you can see particularly for North American routes this is a bad deal, other destinations it’s a non-issue (or even cheaper for some!)

    • Chris Heyes says:
      10 Aug10 August 15:24

      den We do it all the time, but we ring up to make the first booking and tell them we will be adding return leg when flights become available agent makes a note to that affect because more often than not we return from a different route
      Never had a problem

      • den says:
        10 Aug10 August 17:04

        Ah, thanks for the reply Chris. I could be in trouble then as I nabbed the outbound flights at 0100 last Saturday online (not calling up) I will try calling this Thursday night and see what they can do for the return. Hopefully they won’t have an issue but if I have to pay £1600 in total as oppose to £1200 it isn’t the end of the world – cheers.

        • yorkieflyer says:
          10 Aug10 August 18:34

          wont be a problem, we have done it both ways online or phone outward leg then ring in for the return

  • Sandra B says:
    10 Aug10 August 13:39

    Yes. Earlier in the year for me. Called and they acknowledged it was saved to card, that I had the appropriate spend (twice) so they passed it on to accounts. Still nothing. Only £10 but it’s the principle so I’ll call again. On other occasions, usually Shop Small it was put on my card immediately.

  • Mco says:
    10 Aug10 August 13:40

    Flying easyjet what is the cheapest day 2 test now days?

  • ChasP says:
    10 Aug10 August 14:22

    My ongoing battle with Air France over flights to Orlando which they cancelled
    Trying to get flights moved to April but they wll only offer a refund or move with fare difference (£!750)
    They ignore any reference to EU261 or questions why they arent abiding by the rules

    if I pay the difference (under protest) to secure the flights – can I still MCOL them ?

    • ChasP says:
      10 Aug10 August 14:24

      sorry fare difference is £1750

      • Richie says:
        10 Aug10 August 14:26

        Have you formally requested compliance with Art.8 of 261?

        • ChasP says:
          10 Aug10 August 14:36

          yes – several times
          As I said they just ignore any reference to EU261

          • Pete M says:
            10 Aug10 August 14:42

            This is the problem with airlines based abroad – even if you win an MCOL case, you may find it very difficult to enforce the judgement as they likely have no assets in the UK.

          • meta says:
            10 Aug10 August 15:01

            All airlines usually have a UK registered address where you can send them letter before action. Of course there are enforcement issues if you win MCOL case and they refuse. But you can issue a statutory demand followed by winding up procedures (essentially make them bankrupt if they owe £750+). This is not only a UK issue. Remember Tap Portugal, Air Adria, etc. turning mid-air because they faced their planes being impounded over unpaid EU compo claims.

            However, I would do that as last resort. Find out the email address for their chief legal officer (easy to find online) and/or CEO and write a letter stating how far you are prepared to go and that this is unacceptable. Make sure to copy in the agent you have been dealing with in the same email. You’d be surprised how quickly things get resolved.

          • ChrisC says:
            10 Aug10 August 15:19

            The French have a system where they have Members of Parliament for areas outside of France to represent french expats.

            Look up the one for the UK and contact them. They could refuse to do anything but they or their staff could equally zap off an email to AF. (The Af-KL group is almost a 1/3rd owned by the French Government)

    • Paul says:
      10 Aug10 August 14:52

      There is an EU version of CEDR but right now I cannot locate it.

      Also check carefully what regulations France put in place at start of Covid. I had some difficulty getting Hilton room refunded as Government regulations stated they only had to rebook or give vouchers. If flight originates in UK the CEDR route first followed by MCOL. They operate on the basis that you will take whats given.

      On no account pay as you lose all rights at that point.

      • LS says:
        10 Aug10 August 15:03

        They would be foolish to ignore a court judgement against them. You can apply to the high court to set the bailiffs on them. You can end up with planes impounded on the tarmac (and threatened to be sold) unless they pay their debts. Or ask the court to auction off their heathrow landing slots. They really won’t win this one.

        • ChrisC says:
          10 Aug10 August 15:11

          The High Court can instruct the sheriffs to enforce court orders against a company.

          They have far more powers then a bailiff.

          • sloth says:
            10 Aug10 August 15:25

            plus you get to be on morning tv…

          • Lady London says:
            10 Aug10 August 16:33

            do not pay under any circumstances. listen to meta. whatever your flights cost by however long it takes to sort this, UK MCOL/Court is going to make them provide at whatever cost.

            Forget CEDR waste of time with AF/KLM. Just send them legal letter to UK address and French address as well. Then S75 on your card if you paid by UK credit card. If not you have to MCOL and you will win.

            Doesn’t matter if it turns out they don’t have permanent assets in the UK a possession order can be issued permitting to seize and resell any of their assets visiting the UK such as a plane. Of which AF has plenty.

      • meta says:
        10 Aug10 August 15:06

        Also to add and probably the easiest way to resolve this is that if you paid on a credit card then you can force it via S75 claim. Essentially the cc company pays for the new ticket. You need to contact the credit card company and say that Air France is refusing your UK/EU261 rights and you want to start s75 claim.

        • JDB says:
          10 Aug10 August 15:37

          meta, I think you are right to pursue via Amex as AFKLM doesn’t have a registered UK entity/address for service as far as I can see, so MCOL is more complicated. In the first instance you can write to the CEO-anne.rigail@airfrance.fr and the head of customer service/loyalty and Flying Blue – fred.kahane@airfrance.fr and give them a short time to sort it out before s75. Also, in these instances and MCOL, always good to write a very simple clear chronology of events cross referenced to the correspondence you have already had, assembled in one PDF. There is a process in France via the regulator there (DGAC) but looks quite complicated and slow.

        • Ls says:
          10 Aug10 August 15:56

          I agree. If you pay by a credit card, and the flights are for you, and didn’t go via a travel agent the. Section 75 is the way to go. There are examples on the FOS website where they agree with the card issuers obligation to pay for the current cost of a replacement flight.
          If your S75 claim is unsuccessful, escalate to FOS, citing their example. You will almost certainly win, albeit 6 months later. At no cost to yourself.

          • ChasP says:
            10 Aug10 August 16:03

            paid by Virgin CC but the flights arent for me – I separately booked (using miles) so that appears to negate S75

          • Lady London says:
            10 Aug10 August 16:37

            If you paid even £1 on UK credit card and total cost was £100+ cash then you can claim s75 replacement value for the complete amount

    • JDB says:
      10 Aug10 August 16:25

      Lots of people on here are incredibly willing to offer help as you have seen, but you really need to put the key info at the outset, if you want good advice. From what you now say, the chain of lender, borrower and supplier that is required for s75 may have been broken. It may still be worth trying with Virgin – I have no idea how helpful they are with chargebacks/s75. Anyway, you should write to AF CEO and other contact I sent which may hopefully spur them into action. My understanding is that from the outset, AF has been breaking the rules on refunds (the EU made a formal complaint last summer) and re-routings etc. but with the tacit support of the state and the regulator looking the other way, they continue to behave badly. You just need to make enough of a fuss that it is simpler for them to resolve your particular issue.

      • Lady London says:
        10 Aug10 August 16:43

        yes now you’ve told us more I would address your claim to AF and VS jointly. To me it’s looking like your contract is with VS so if you end up suing name both as defendants and let court sort it out.

        For s.75 look at the line(s) on your credit card stat

        • Lady London says:
          10 Aug10 August 16:59

          ..ement to identify for s75 which merchant has not provided what you paid for, these lines are basis of your s75 claim

      • JDB says:
        10 Aug10 August 16:49

        Also, post whatever you send to AF CEO to:-
        Société Air France
        Legal Affairs Department
        Plesman House
        2A Cains Lane
        Bedfont
        Middlesex
        TW14 9RL

    • Lady London says:
      10 Aug10 August 16:29

      do not pay under any circumstances. listen to meta. whatever your flights cost by however long it takes to sort this, UK MCOL/Court is going to make them provide at whatever cost.

      Forget CEDR waste of time with AF/KLM. Just send them legal letter to UK address and French address as well. Then S75 on your card if you paid by UK credit card. If not you have to MCOL and you will win.

      Doesn’t matter if it turns out they don’t have permanent assets in the UK a possession order can be issued permitting to seize and resell any of their assets visiting the UK such as a plane. Of which AF has plenty.

      • JDB says:
        10 Aug10 August 16:40

        s75 doesn’t apply for a third party which ChasP has suggested is the case. In fact, if a supplementary cardholder buys something exclusively for themselves, s75 doesn’t apply either. You may be able to rely on chargeback and you may get some goodwill from the card company, but if they refuse, the Ombudsman will reject your claim.

        • Lady London says:
          10 Aug10 August 16:49

          yes now you’ve told us more I would address your claim to AF and VS jointly. To me it’s looking like your contract is with VS so if you end up suing name both as defendants and let court sort it out.

          For s.75 look at the line(s) on your credit card statement(s) as that gives you, for s75, which merchant has failed to provide what you purchased and that’s the basis of your s75 claim. Remember it only has to be £1 paid on UK credit card to be able to claim for the whole amount on s.75.

          French legal and conciliation procedures will be a waste of time as so far they haven’t even protected the French very well.

    • Sukes says:
      10 Aug10 August 17:13

      You can use a UK alternative dispute resolution with AF, they’re signed up to AviationADR. See https://wwws.airfrance.co.uk/information/legal/edito-cgv or https://www.aviationadr.org.uk/how-to-complain-about-air-france-flight/

      • Sandra says:
        10 Aug10 August 21:00

        Not related to flight cancellations but after a particularly bad business class flight back from the ME a few years ago where, amongst other things, KLM left our bags in Amsterdam in both directions and on the return damaged one and took 4 days to deliver them to our home I contacted customer services & was met with the usual Gallic shrug. That was it for me, I copied everything by direct email to the CEO (google search after getting his name from the onboard magazine which I’d kept) & it was sorted within 48 hours, apology, new suitcase and a €500 voucher each for me & my daughter which we used on a Delta flight to Boston later that year. He realised it was easier to concede that there had been a big customer service failure on that flight & get it sorted out rather than take me on. You just have to be tenacious & make them realise that.

  • Sina says:
    10 Aug10 August 14:53

    Has anyone got free stay at Marriott Vacation club before? I have been offered a free 3-night stay and was wondering if this is real?

    • Yorkie Aid says:
      10 Aug10 August 15:14

      Get ready for the hard sell

    • Mrs_Fussy says:
      10 Aug10 August 15:18

      How do you get ‘Offered’ a free Marriott Vacation club stay @ Sina

    • idrive says:
      10 Aug10 August 16:29

      i have been offered the same by Hilton and I accepted it, any feedback on that?

      • Mark says:
        10 Aug10 August 16:40

        I did the Hilton one in Florida, 6 night stay plus early access park access to all universal parks including water parks for $200 each. Was a bargain. Had to listen to the 1 1/2 hour sales pitch but was easy to just keep saying no plus it rained the whole time at the sales pitch so didn’t miss anything. Would do it again if offered.

        • idrive says:
          10 Aug10 August 16:47

          Great, this time $200 for 3 nights/4 days, 2 hr pitch one off and no resort fees.
          Chose Florida just because i don’t want NYC and because it could be warm but could change to Vegas if I wanted. honestly, it sounds like a great deal but no extra were added (entrance to parks etc) only got offered HH points for the stay.

          • Gtellez says:
            10 Aug10 August 20:39

            I recently got 20k Marriott points just for listening the presentation through Teams.

    • Johnny5a says:
      10 Aug10 August 22:01

      Yes did it twice, be prepared for a long presentation and a sell but not a very hard sell. Have an excuse ready why you’re not interested, luckily my wife was pregnant at the time, so we said we’ll have to see after the baby is born how our finances are.

  • Dan says:
    10 Aug10 August 15:13

    BA Amex, card anniversary is 11th Sept 21.

    Upgraded last week to BAPP to trigger 2-4-1 voucher and charged £195 by Amex as expected.

    A) Will I be charged £195 again on the 11th Sept, for my following card year? Or does the payment count for 1 year’s BAPP membership starting from the date I upgraded?

    B) If it counts for 1 year’s BAPP membership, does that mean I can spend another £10K from 11th Sept and effectively trigger a 2nd voucher, eventhough I only paid for 1 year’s membership?

    C) If I asked them to downgrade me for a pro-rata refund, would I only get 1 month refunded as I’ve had almost an entire membership year?

    • Tom says:
      10 Aug10 August 15:26

      A) No
      B) No
      C) No

    • Tariq says:
      10 Aug10 August 18:32

      You end up with misaligned fee and voucher year ends. My annual fee gets charged in May, but I have until November to trigger my voucher. A slightly more extreme example of your situation.

  • Mark says:
    10 Aug10 August 15:30

    Just received a text saying to self isolate as I was close contact with someone who had Covid. How would they know…? I’ve not checked in to anywhere in the last few weeks.

    • Harrier25 says:
      10 Aug10 August 15:35

      It follows you round using Bluetooth technology!

    • memesweeper says:
      10 Aug10 August 15:43

      Someone who you were in close contact has given test and trace your contact details perhaps? if this has happened, I don’t think they will confirm it.

    • Mark says:
      10 Aug10 August 15:43

      And also I’ve been overseas all these while and just got back 48 hours ago!

      • SteveJ says:
        10 Aug10 August 15:46

        Well then T&T have your details from the flight. It’ll be someone from the flight surely.

      • Pete M says:
        10 Aug10 August 15:47

        Could be from the plane you flew back on, then.

      • JDB says:
        10 Aug10 August 15:47

        In which case, it may be from your flight back?

      • Harrier25 says:
        10 Aug10 August 15:47

        That’s enough time to get pinged as the app now only tracks back up to 48 hours as of last week.

      • Sam G says:
        10 Aug10 August 15:47

        Likely your flight based on your PLF (assuming you flew back)

      • Joe says:
        10 Aug10 August 15:48

        Sounds like someone on plane tested positive ?!

        • Mark says:
          10 Aug10 August 16:03

          Makes sense now… how annoying. Flying off in 7 days again and now I have to self isolate up till I depart…?!

          • Pete M says:
            10 Aug10 August 16:18

            I believe, legally, you shouldn’t depart anywhere until the quarantine period is over?

          • Harrier25 says:
            10 Aug10 August 16:46

            As we are all friends on here, just let us know if you need a food parcel leaving outside your front door, Mark.

          • TGLoyalty says:
            10 Aug10 August 17:06

            What happens on Aug 16th if you’re fully vaccinated anyway? Are you released after only 8 days (assuming your close contact was two days ago or have to spend the full 10? )

          • Harrier25 says:
            10 Aug10 August 17:25

            I’d tell you to ask Boris, TG, but he won’t bloody know!

          • Optimus Prime says:
            10 Aug10 August 17:36

            Just do like Boris and don’t bother isolating.

          • The Savage Squirrel says:
            10 Aug10 August 17:38

            If you’re isolating at the behest of T&T (rather than due to any colour country lists) then you shouldn’t travel anywhere until the isolation period is over. Doing so may, depending on the particular circumstances, be a criminal offence – and would be a pretty open and shut evidential case if you check in for a flight; so I’d alter your flight or plans if committing a criminal offence could lead to issues, and the timings mean you would need to.

      • Tracey says:
        10 Aug10 August 21:37

        If you are double vaxxed + 14 days, isolation ends on 16 August providing you don’t have symptoms.

    • Rob says:
      10 Aug10 August 18:15

      They gave T&T your name.

  • memesweeper says:
    10 Aug10 August 15:49

    Very long shot… but I have to ask and I know there are some fans of Amex here…

    Back in the 70s/80s there was an Amex advert, if I recall correctly two business people sat outside a cafe or restaurant, and the waiter is repeatedly demanding payment in a foreign language — it might have been the Italian for 55 (cinquantacinque! cinquantacinque!) — one guy is fumbling with a pile of unfamiliar notes and his companion eventually leans forward with the Amex and its smiles all round from the waiter. It was part of the series of ads eventually ruthlessly sent up by NTNOCN.

    I’d like to show it to someone… any copies out there? on youtube perhaps…?

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