The HfP chat thread – Friday 6th August

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bill says:

6 Aug6 August 15:49

An interesting thread about vaccination passes and QR codes

https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1423652422606540804
- Muhammad Abdullah says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 16:44
  
  He refers to the “whole mess” of the UK’s lack of participation in the certificate server, -which is sensible, as that is the sole reason they don’t validate, I am willing to bet states in the US and other third countries, will also never consent. But not the mess of stupid Covid Passes in the first place?
  
  Then we see, he loves the EU and no doubt thinks the Commission’s response to the pandemic has been marvellous. If you read the Com website, you would think they have had the whole thing under control since day 1, tirelessly working to save EU lives…
  
  Moreover, I’m not keen on “fully vaccinated” it would be preferable to say “up to date” on account of the boosters that will be needed. Two doses will not be enough for many countries come the end of the year to the start 2022, mark my words! Either Covid Passes go in the bin where they belong, or they stay around for many years.
  
  PHE figures show 35% of hospital admissions with CV19 are double vax, unvax is 55%.
  - Anuj says:
    
    6 Aug6 August 17:11
    
    How anyone can look back on the past two years of gov decisions involving nepotism, corruption, one rule for them vs us and come out with EU being worse is beyond me.
    - maccymac says:
      
      6 Aug6 August 17:58
      
      I think most reasonable people don’t lump EU member states and the apparatus of the EU bureaucracy into one homogenous mess.
      
      Some EU member states have handled the pandemic well, such as Norway. Others could have done much better, just like we should have done much better.
      
      Many EU member states have been embroiled in nepotism, corruption, one rule for them vs us just as we have. Politicians are politicians. Just because it isn’t reported on the BBC or the Guardian doesn’t mean it isn’t rampant.
      
      However, the EU bureaucracy have demonstrated the depths of their incompetence.
      
      Have you forgotten when they blocked the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance’s (comprised of Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy) attempt to purchase doses directly from AZ? They dithered and delayed for several months and signed the exactly same agreement that the IVA and AZ originally agreed, only many months later. This cost AZ time in order to troubleshoot manufacturing issues. When there was the inevitable delay in meeting targets, did the EU bureaucracy take responsibility for delaying the contract by several months? Of course not, they did everything they could to start a war with AZ in the middle of a pandemic.
      
      Remember the blood clot fiasco? When the EU purposefully played up the blood clot risk of AZ vaccines to undermine confidence? You have a 0.0008% risk of blood clots with AZ, 0.012% with the oral contraceptive pill, 0.18% from smoking and 16.5% from catching COVID. Yes younger people should be offered an alternative in areas where cases are low but the EU’s heinous and negligent handling of the situation has led to vaccine skepticism and undoubtedly reduced vaccine uptake and prolonged this wretched pandemic.
      
      How about when the EU blocked vaccine exports from the bloc to customers who had legitimate contracts for the vaccine? Can you think of anything more heinous? They blocked a shipment to Australia, that the UK stepped in fulfilled.
      
      This government has a lot of questions to answer. Especially regarding care homes and PPE. But so do the governments of Spain, Hungary, Italy and many Eastern European countries.
      
      But starting a war against a vaccine manufacturer in the middle of a pandemic due to shortcomings in your own competence, purposefully undermining confidence in vaccines and blocking vaccine exports takes a special kind of monster.
      
      The UK government has been bad, but the EU bureaucracy has been catastrophic.
      - Genghis says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 18:18
        
        Note Norway isn’t in the EU
      - marcw says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 19:16
        
        I stopped reading after the second paragraph. Norway not in the EU.
      - ChrisC says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 20:28
        
        Norway may not be in the EU but it is in the EEA and follows EU rules even if it’s not a member state with little or no say in now those rules were formulated.
      - maccymac says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 20:28
        
        Sorry I know. Meant to say Denmark.
        
        Hope you give it a read @marcw even if you disagree.
  - Rob says:
    
    6 Aug6 August 17:29
    
    You’re just showing a failure to understand maths now.
    
    As the vast majority of people are double vaccinated, you would expect 85% of hospital patients to be vaxxed if they didn’t work. This figure also includes, for example, people in hospital giving birth who happen to test positive for mild covid when admitted. You’d be better looking at death numbers.
    - Muhammad Abdullah says:
      
      6 Aug6 August 18:15
      
      I didn’t make any conclusions from the figures I merely posted them, you’ve done that when you say I have failed to understand
      
      The vaccine has made very little difference to life in the UK and travelling. Its independent Member States that have chosen to waive all Covid testing for “fully” vax persons. It’s not universal across the EU.
      
      I agree on the EU, but the Europhiles will be along to point out that Norway is not a Member State hence you’re wrong and then reminding you that the ECtHR is not part of the EU and all that cr@p. Norway is an EEA member. If you want to talk positive MS, look at Sweden. I’ve got family there, I’ve been many times in the pandemic (it was one of the few open countries) they’ve never fully locked down. I was sitting in a bar in Malmo when pretty much the other 26 Member States were shuttered. Deaths have been low, cases are low.
      
      Don’t forget the French vaccine, did not meet the effectiveness threshold and was essentially, rubbish. As if we need a reminder, the EU serves Germany, then France, in that order.
      
      Sweden’s Tegnell is inconvenient to the lockdown idealists like Prof Witty and Prof Shagger (Ferguson) and while Tegnell is a scientist and essentially their CMO, his ‘science’ is not the UK science. Just like the scientists who advised Spain, Poland that outside masks are marvellous are following different ‘science’ on mask effectiveness than the UK who said outside masks are pointless. Who was right? Was Spain protecting Grandmas while UK was murdering them?
      
      An interesting outlier is Hungary. It’s very anti-EU under Orban but has had a very tough lockdown while purporting to support the principles of individual freedom and the family. I can only theorise that geriatric support of Orban forced a hard lockdown like Law and Justice in Poland.
      - PerkyPat says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 18:21
        
        And Sweden have far worse figures than other comparable Nordic countries.
      - Dave1985 says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 18:33
        
        “ The vaccine has made very little difference to life in the UK”
        
        Nonsense. Everything is open now.
        
        People need to get a grip and stop whinging/playing the mental health card etc.
        
        Freedom is here!
      - Harry T says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 19:45
        
        Sweden has one of the worst mortality rates in Europe, with considerably worse outcomes than its comparable neighbours, both in health and economic terms. I wish people who want to venerate Sweden as some paragon of liberal covid management would do the reading.
        
        Also, as Rob says, as the majority of the adult population is vaccinated, it’s logical that many people admitted to hospital will be vaccinated. It’s more relevant to look at death rates.
        
        I also think it’s quite entertaining to say that vaccination has made little difference to life in the UK. Perhaps you were in Sweden when over a thousand people were dying daily in the UK in January?
      - Dave1985 says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 20:48
        
        Lockdown finished ages ago and people are still crying about it 🤣
        
        Get over it! It’s finished!
- RJA says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 18:41
  
  Apologies, I cant seem to work out how to make a “new” thread.
  
  I have booked 2 Avios First return LHR to Atlanta in October using an Amex 2for1 voucher. BA have “for operational reasons” downgraded my outbound to Club. Am I due a refund in avios for the difference between club / taxed between club and First? If so, does this happen automatically or do I need to call BA? Love the site, thanks for any advice.
  - Jonathan says:
    
    6 Aug6 August 19:39
    
    In this situation I would do nothing until after the flight then claim downgrade compensation of 75% of the Avios for each downgraded leg plus 75% of the BA carrier surcharges (not including U.K. APD & Heathrow passenger service fee). It makes it the cheapest Business class ticket you’ll ever buy. If BA don’t play ball then it’s a barndoor MCOL case. Just make sure you claim for both passengers (241 voucher is irrelevant) & value the Avios at the price BA sell them for (1.6p each).
    
    Example calculation: LHR-ATL First return: 185,000 Avios plus £677.67 TFC’s. £277.67 is genuine taxes, £400 is carrier surcharge.
    
    One way is therefore 92500 Avios plus £200 BA fees.
    
    92,500×0.75= 69,375 Avios x 1.6p/Avios= £1,110
    
    £200×0.75= £150.
    
    Total compensation due per passenger = £1,260.
    
    Your issue is that the flight may well be cancelled or you can’t fly on it so you end up taking a voucher. If you don’t fly you don’t get the compo.
    - Jonathan says:
      
      6 Aug6 August 19:41
      
      If you call BA in advance then they will happily refund the difference (they’ll actually cancel your First booking & make a new one in Business). They will then claim you were never downgraded as you flew in the cabin booked.
      - Jonathan says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 19:45
        
        They would also likely offer you a reroute in First via eg. Miami or JFK or to move flights to dates with First availability within a few days. Personally I’d 100% be flying in Club & claiming the compo.
    - Lady London says:
      
      6 Aug6 August 20:06
      
      ermmm Jonathan don’t you mean £300 not £200? as 75% of £400 BA carrier surcharge part of :taxes: ?
      - Sean says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 22:17
        
        no he is doing it as a single
  - Lady London says:
    
    6 Aug6 August 20:01
    
    If you go back on this daily thread you’ll see this one comes up at least every 3-5 days in this particular form plus other related queries.
    
    Until you’ve researched it and looked at all your options I would suggest you make sure to do absolutely nothing. No hurry.
    
    For example some people would welcome this with glee because if having booked First the airline downgraded them to.Club, when you’ve flown it law EU261 means you collect a 75% reimbursement of what you paid for First from the airline. Which they can’t avoid paying. Per seat based the cost of the first seat, if a 241. If they resist it’s a simple form and a small fee which you will get back plus 75% of the cost of the Number 1 seat, for each seat.
    
    Alternatively you may want to still be in First in which case you could ask to be rerouted onto a date still with First, or if none then another airline still in First but that’s taking a hard road.
    
    If you just take a partial refund or full refund then as you can imagine BA would quite like that as then you lose all your rights to.the above. Which could be why BA might even try to refund or partially refund you without your consent. If you want any of the above instead refuse it point blank in writing and on phone if they try this one and tell them you will let them know your choice later.
    
    The flight just sits there you have till at least a week before to sort out what you want and call them – actually you could wait a few days more but I’m saying 1 week in case of phone delays getting through.
    
    btw the 75% off doesn’t come off APD which is the true actual taxes part of BA’s ‘taxes’ so about £200 or so taken off what you paid then they have to reimburse you 75% of the rest of what you paid for your seat and same again based on your seat for any +1 on 241.
- Rja says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 19:35
  
  Apologies, I cant seem to work out how to make a “new” thread.
  
  I have booked 2 Avios First return LHR to Atlanta in October using an Amex 2for1 voucher. BA have “for operational reasons” downgraded our outbound to Club. Am I due a refund in avios for the difference between club / first or the taxes between club / First? If so, does this happen automatically or do I need to call BA? Love the site, thanks for any advice.
Wally1976 says:

6 Aug6 August 16:41

Currently in Greece and due back in England on 14th August.

Just ordered PCR tests with Expert Medicals and then had a bit of a panic! On the first page for each test I’ve given information for the person being tested (one for me, one for my wife and one for each child) but on the next page – shipping information – I’ve done them all in my name.

On the confirmations, as far as I can see there is only my name. Is this going to cause a problem – are we going to be asked to show proof of ordering a test with each person’s name on it?

TIA
- George K says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 17:51
  
  Definitely not. There is no such level of checking. The confirmation code is all you need. Even if you were asked, you could show that you’ve bought three.
  
  I wouldn’t worry.
  - Wally1976 says:
    
    6 Aug6 August 17:52
    
    Thanks George 👍
Anuj says:

6 Aug6 August 17:27

Hi everyone, I’m getting my 2nd jab on Wednesday, how long before I am considered fully vaccinated for international travel? Also how much are tests in total roughly these days for a green or amber country? I’ve just been totally disconnected from the rules and costs because I wasn’t planning to.
- meta says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 17:45
  
  Read up previous threads incl. previous pages on the chat thread today!
- ChrisC says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 20:20
  
  Sorry but that is easily verified from proper government sources.
  
  What if someone said 3 days* and no one else rebutted that and you booked a trip for 3 days later only to find out it’s a totally different period and you booked flights and hotels and tests based on that?
  
  * it’s not 3 days.
- Tracey says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 20:38
  
  2 weeks = 14 days excluding the day you were vaccinated. So the day of vaccination is day 0.
Will says:

6 Aug6 August 18:25

Hi all, I would like to refer my Dad for a new Amex card, specifically the Gold. He previously had the Amex Gold 1yr9months ago. Not interested in the bonus – as he currently has the Nectar card so ineligible. Just wondering on 2 points:
1. Will the card still be free for 1st year even though he previously had Gold 1yr 9 months ago?
2. Will I still get a referral bonus if I refer?

Many thanks!
- Genghis says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 18:32
  
  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  Better idea though – wait a few more months then refer him for Plat for a SUB.
- Rob says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 20:47
  
  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  - Will says:
    
    6 Aug6 August 21:51
    
    Great, thank you Genghis and Rob!
Sam says:

6 Aug6 August 18:53

Evening all, Is there a way I can get an extra 10k raddison points in time to make a redemption for tomorrow night? Amex transfer has disappeared and cannot buy points it seems as says ‘coming soon’. Its just the cash prices are crazy but there’s reward availability.
AnotherUser says:

6 Aug6 August 19:10

Hoping to fly to Spain later this month. Am fully vaxed. A few things to check:
– No testing needed prior to entering Spain, so long as we present proof of vaccination?
– We can still return to the UK with just a lateral flow pre-departure test (despite ‘advice’ to get a PCR now), or would we be better organising a PCR?
– Assuming the next review of the traffic light system happens on schedule, Spain should remain on the amber list till Aug 28?

Thanks. Travel’s confusing at the moment!
- N says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 19:22
  
  Yes, yes, and probably. Next review is actually scheduled 26th.
- Harry T says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 19:29
  
  1) Yes, as long as fully vaccinated at least 14 days before
  2) yes, the PCR test is a recommendation from the government, but a rapid antigen is all that is legally required.
  3) no guarantees with the Schapps random country generator. However, the government does not have the logistical capacity or the political capital to put Spain on the red list during the summer holidays.
  - AnotherUser says:
    
    6 Aug6 August 19:41
    
    Thanks! So if we fly back by the 26th, Spain shouldn’t change to red list unless there’s some unscheduled change (which definitely would cause chaos if it happened in the summer holidays!)
    - Harry T says:
      
      6 Aug6 August 19:48
      
      I hope for your sake (and mine – I’ll probably be out there too) that the government doesn’t repeat the shambolic red listing of Spain they engineered last summer. But you never know! Always have a plan B and exit strategy, IMO 😊
      - Reney says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 20:07
        
        Similar concerns here, I am planning to be in France 27th- 30th which is right after the travel advice update. Eurostar only allows changes 7 days before. So if France goes red, then I assume I am losing that money and the cost of at least a pre-departure test kit. I assume the cost of Eurostar if I wait till 3 days before would be too high and if I wait the test kit may not arrive in time!
      - Rob says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 20:44
        
        France isn’t going red.
      - AnotherUser says:
        
        6 Aug6 August 21:10
        
        Good point – with flight availability at the moment, I could probably book a reward flight home mid-trip and just pay the cancellation fee assuming all goes smoothly 🙂
TM says:

6 Aug6 August 20:09

Re: UK passport renewal

Does anyone know if you can travel whilst your passport is renewing? I don’t really know how it works (it has been 10 years!) – does starting the renewal “cancel” your current passport even if it has validity left?

TIA
- ChrisC says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 20:23
  
  Since they can’t process the renewal until they have received the old one yes you could travel.
  
  But be prepared for regular texts and emails reminding you to send it in to the office.
  - TM says:
    
    7 Aug7 August 10:54
    
    Ok thanks. My passport expires in May 22, but I have travel in Aug, Oct, Dec, Feb, Apr etc, so wasn’t sure if I would have any time to apply for the renewal!
Bill says:

6 Aug6 August 20:23

Anyone had any issues using self administered lateral flow to fly to Portugal? I know the EU doc says they have to be done by a professional but seems like no one is checking this is the case
- meta says:
  
  6 Aug6 August 21:16
  
  Not sure which airline you are flyint, but every case is different. Why don’t you be the guinea pig then and report back? Or if you arrive early, you could always pop to Collinson site at the airport just before you fly.
  - Mark says:
    
    6 Aug6 August 21:20
    
    Or just use DAM Health which is £29 in-person.
    - meta says:
      
      6 Aug6 August 21:36
      
      It also depends where you’re based. Collinson is now at St Pancras and you can get the lateral flow for £32 with Amex20 or BA20 code. You also get a result within an hour which would leave you more time to get organised in case of mishaps as opposed to 24h with DAM Health.
- Matthew says:
  
  7 Aug7 August 00:47
  
  Me and my partner both used Prenetics home tests for entry to Portugal a few days ago flying with BA. Uploaded all my documents to BA online and they got pre-approved. The border agent didn’t really seem to pay attention to anything other than the name, date, and result. Everything worked fine for us but I guess YMMV.