The HfP chat thread – Friday 9th July

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YC says:

9 Jul9 July 07:09

Can I check if this will work:
1. Arrive back in UK Tues
2. Take day2 (pcr) test on Thurs
3. Use result from day2 to enter France on Sat
4. Use result from day2 to re-enter Uk on Sun
- Andrew says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 07:19
  
  I’m not sure but I do know some providers will insist on you paying for at least two tests for what you suggest.
  
  We had family arrive from Israel to see their dying mother/grandma and they were only staying 2 nights. The testing company at LHR T5 insisted the Day 2 test and pre-departure (for returning to Israel) tests had to be separate and so cost an extra £80.
  
  The fact there was no discernible difference in the certificates they issued was galling. As was the fee for a third test that ended up being required when El Al moved the flight back 2 hours and so the original test was “out of time”.
  - Andrew says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 07:20
    
    LHR T2 that should’ve been…
  - YC says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 07:56
    
    So what would have stopped them from showing the Day2 test certificate at pre departure?
    - Andrew says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 08:06
      
      I’m presuming nothing but the test provider insisted that if you’re needing certificates for two different purposes then they needed two tests and two fees.
      
      Smacks of money-making but given the travellers were visiting to see their sick relative one last time, they had other things on their minds, paid up and got to the hospice as quickly as they could.
- JAC says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 08:14
  
  Yes that should work. I have been using one PCR test to enter France and then the UK and then use the same test 3 days later to re enter France. (I use the frequent traveller abroad exemption so I dont need to buy / take day 2 test)
  - Lady London says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 10:52
    
    How do you use the frequent traveller exemption?
- TGLoyalty says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 08:37
  
  Well surely it won’t work because a day 2 test doesn’t give you a fit to fly certificate.
  - YC says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 09:49
    
    Are the words ‘fit to fly’ required on the certificate to board a plane/train? Rather than just PCR test = Negative with a time stamp? Genuine question as not travelled since all these requirements have been introduced
    - TGLoyalty says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 10:05
      
      Depend on the country most want full Name, passport number, test type, test result on a pdf.
      
      Does a day 2 result provide anything other than a text/email saying negative/positive or the full lot?
- Felix says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 10:08
  
  Re 3. Yes, I used my day 8 test for the Eurostar to France, no issues
Jenny says:

9 Jul9 July 07:23

When will this red list thing be dropped??
- Toby says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 07:30
  
  My total guess is not until late spring ’22, once we’re through the worst of the winter stuff.
  - Jenny says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 07:38
    
    Literally few countries have been downgraded. Really need to do some travel by September without this 1750 nonsense
    - Toby says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 08:41
      
      I agree! But I think the government will keep it to allow them to control outbreaks of new variants of concern in other countries.
      
      My approach is to do quick holidays this summer and autumn and plan big trips for next spring.
- Paul says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 07:32
  
  I think they’d drop it tomorrow but I suspect within a week/10 days much of the world will take steps to keep inhabitants of plague island well away. Spain, Portugal and Greece seeing big spikes. I say that as someone who booked flight yesterday but as day went on became down about actually getting away.
  I am also genuinely amazed at Greek hotels cancellation policies. In many cases no refund at all and many want 3 weeks notice. So flights booked but no accommodation. Way to risky!
  - Sam G says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 07:50
    
    If their levels of Delta / cases are starting to match ours with the same varient then there is no point in shutting us out – that’s why Germany downgraded us.
    
    What I’m more worried about is where we want to go having restrictions that would impede having a decent holiday but vaccination levels are such in Europe now that hopefully it won’t happen
  - Anna says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 08:27
    
    This “plague island” thing is getting really tedious. The increase in infections in Spain is nothing to do with travellers from the UK – it’s being driven by younger Spanish people who are flouting the guidelines and are largely unvaccinated. If you bothered to inform yourself, Paul, you would find numerous news sources attesting to this.
    The authorities in the Canary Islands are currently exhorting their residents to observe social distances regulations and get themselves vaccinated so UK tourists aren’t discouraged from taking holidays there this summer, with the tourism minister describing the relaxing of our quarantine measures as a “key moment” for their economy!
    https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/governing-council-meeting-update-08072021
    - Oh! Matron! says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 08:38
      
      Maybe tedious, but with 32K cases yesterday, we now have the 3rd highest cases in the world. I think Plague Island is perfectly apt.
      
      However, your point is perfectly valid, and I’d imagine that it’s the same in the UK too. Gotta have those beers in the local ‘spoons, right?
      - Paul says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 08:57
        
        But the third highest cases in the world including who? How many countries are testing, and how many tests, and publishing results?
      - Char Char says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 14:14
        
        Today maybe true but as every country (more specifically area) will have different timelines to peaks it’s not realistic to say we will be the 3rd highest for that long.
    - TGLoyalty says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 08:41
      
      it’s being driven by younger Spanish people who are flouting the guidelines and are largely unvaccinated.
      
      Just getting back to life. Spain have 43% of their population fully vaccinated only 7% behind the U.K. it’s time to stop worrying about “cases”
      - Char Char says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 14:15
        
        Doubt it.
    - Paul says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 08:56
      
      Plague Island refers to the FACT that we have the highest death rates, now the worst infection rates and that as a nation, we are are barred from more countries than any other nation on earth with the exception of India. So much for “request and require” printed so assiduously in those little blue books.
      
      The death toll here yesterday was 35; that’s 8 more in a single day than New Zealand has had throughout the crisis. Its a choice that was made to “let it rip” to have “heard immunity” that has left a wave of death and misery for hundreds of thousands.
      
      And for what reason? A fantasy Global Britain jolly to a former colony!
      
      Moreover, by allowing this utter folly we drastically increase the risk of mutations and variants.
      
      Yes, it is tedious living living on plague Island, shut off from the world, but not everyone is going to follow this countries irresponsible approach.
      - David says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 09:02
        
        +1 Paul. Well said.
      - TGLoyalty says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 09:08
        
        -1 because it’s sensationalist bollocks.
        
        The reported deaths are with 28 days of a positive test whatever the reason. It’s been pointed out many many times the actual death toll is the excess deaths vs the 5 year average. As that will be the true impact of the Covid restrictions we have lived with forever.
        
        Covid is not and never will go away it will do what viruses do and mutate. The at risk have all now had the chance to have both doses + 2 weeks. There’s no folly here.
      - Aliks says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 09:11
        
        Damn, and here is me naively believing that vaccines work, and that getting back to a normal life was the main objective.
        
        I can now see clearly that the objective has to be complete eradication of the virus from these shores, before anyone can dare to set a foot outdoors, or even take a holiday overseas.
      - Axel says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 09:15
        
        46 yo7ng kids entered hospital in New Zealand yesterday because of RSV. A direct consequence of living like rabbits down holes in NZ. No cases recorded in UK.
        
        Its not just about covid deaths, of which UK is about number 20 not the highest in recorded rates
      - JDB says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 09:24
        
        I think your use of the word ‘fact’ in capitals merely serves to illustrate that what you say is not fact. We do have one of the higher rates, but far from the highest in Europe, but there are a great many valid reasons for that including our geographic position as a very international crossroads, elderly population, % of higher risk ethnicities, London being by far the biggest city in Europe etc. To compare our death rates to New Zealand is further demonstration of the ridiculousness and paucity of information in your rant.
      - Thom says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 09:51
        
        If by highest death rates you mean c.26th highest excess death rate per 100k population … (per economist tracker including reported Data through end of April so we may have actually ‘improved’ since then as we have had low death counts in recent months).
        
        But the point on high number of cases stands and would be of concern to other countries with low vaccination levels.
      - The Lord says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 10:26
        
        FACT: On July 19th we will have the most personal freedoms of any European country and also be the most vaccinated. Not sure who’s shoes you would rather be in?
      - Lady London says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 11:03
        
        +1 Paul.
        Why are people here that are normally enormously rational and sensible on here, in denial?
        
        I’ve restrained myself from using the words “Diddums” and “holiday”.
      - K says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 12:09
        
        FAO The Lord: Fact is there are other countries in Europe who are already most vaccinated and most freedoms regained. Hungary has already removed all restrictions.
      - Char Char says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 14:20
        
        -1
        
        You even compare the 35 deaths yesterday to a number of deaths in a country that has a population of only 7% of the UK.
        
        You can make comparisons when its over, posting sensational rubbish doesn’t help anyone.
    - M says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 09:04
      
      It does not matter – it is all politics… when UK start getting 50,000+ cases a day, vaccinated or not, it – there is a political chance countries in Europe will start putting quarantines on UK travellers – at the end of the day that’s the UK has done (and is still doing to EU countries anyway)… they will have all the Shengen tourists anyway … so putting the UK on a quarantine list is no biggie… as for the USA… with UK relying on Astra Zeneca vaccine (and given that AZ is not approved in the USA) … chances are that UK travellers won’t travel easily to the USA either!
    - Lady London says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 10:59
      
      France is vaccinating age 12 and up now. They are desperate to get as many people vaccinated as they can in July because of incoming visitors bringing it combined with their own spread – their own spread having got close to under control pre-visiting season.
      
      Children and teenagers are massive carriers mostly asymptomatic so they are doinh their best to reduce the pool of available sink of infection / tramsmitters.
      - TGLoyalty says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 12:13
        
        Yup let’s vaccinate kids with experimental vaccines under emergency approval … deplorable
      - Sandgrounder says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 13:06
        
        @The Lord, Iceland are ahead of us, no domestic restrictions at all and, most importantly, also virtually no Covid. Over 60% of the whole population (including kids) fully jabbed vs just over 50% in the UK.
    - Bazza says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 14:24
      
      plague island – its all caused by brexit! Didn’t you know?
- Andrew says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 08:37
  
  When there are no red countries left.
  - TGLoyalty says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 08:43
    
    And they are red because they don’t have vaccination rates as high as or higher than the U.K.
    
    It’s time to live with it …
KBuffett says:

9 Jul9 July 07:40

Is Marriott still offering HJH rates?
- YC says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 07:50
  
  Yup at some properties I can still see it
  - David says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 09:28
    
    Yes in the UK and parts of Europe
Michael C says:

9 Jul9 July 07:51

Will someone PLEASE pretend that my 20 Aug BOS will go ahead *crying emoji*

Btw what’s the situation with BAH, as this would’ve been first: I currently have a PE upgraded with Avios to CW. I’m guessing if I cancel, it’s just deposit back as a voucher, but if BA cancel, will they transfer that whole “package” of flights + hotel to a different date?
- Andrew says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 07:57
  
  I wish I could lie to you and tell you that you’re going. But my trip to NY in late September will be the same – another in a long line of cancelled flights.
- Anna says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 08:34
  
  It was reported by Reuters the other day that the consultation group for reopening US-UK travel is unlikely to come to a decision before the beginning of September, and the fact that the US hasn’t approved AZ vaccines isn’t helping!
  I’ve got my fingers crossed for our BOS trip next March, even if we get downgraded to J which is a distinct possibility …
  - Andrew says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 09:06
    
    March might be realistic.
  - mutley says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 10:01
    
    There is now a lot more pressure in congress to open up to Europe from business, the corporation I work for( present in 40 states, Canada and Mexico) has met congressmen/women in an attempt to persuade the Biden administration to act. I predict at least a partial opening by Thanksgiving
- Harry T says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 08:49
  
  I’m meant to be going to Boston in August and I’m not feeling terribly optimistic. Some of the problems include our growing irrelevance to the US and the boundless incompetence and laziness of Grant Schapps.
  - Zoe says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 08:58
    
    We have Boston booked for September using the great Virgin reduced miles deal earlier this year. At that point booking towards the end of the booking period and to a non Republican state seemed a good bet. Now hoping Virgin cancel the flight so we can push the deal into next year.
  - David says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 09:29
    
    Harry when will you be eating your hat ?
  - Paul Pogba says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 10:13
    
    Being relevant to the US led us to our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan so becoming irrelevant could be a good thing.
  - Michael C says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 11:46
    
    See you there, Harry, sadly followed by a massive “NOT”!
    Ah, well…maybe April?
    
    But BA won’t just shift my dates, right, if I’ve only paid the deposit?
- Sean says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 10:09
  
  Michael you’ll be Ok everything will open up on 19 August.
  
  Lottery numbers for tomorrow are 8,19,22,34,36 and 45.
  
  There you go!
  - Mike says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 10:44
    
    Sean – I will want my £2 back if they are not !
  - Michael C says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 11:44
    
    ;o)
    
    And Sterling won’t fall over on Sunday.
Maciek says:

9 Jul9 July 08:05

For anyone looking for amber arrival tests now – https://www.find-travel-test-provider.service.gov.uk/test-type/amber has a list with prices starting from £4.95. Dates for these cheap onsite tests were 2+ weeks out at very least and often months out. 0044covidtest was the cheapest at home package at £60 total, but use the old ebay scammer sellers technique of adding £35+ for shipping! Ended up with kurixhealth for £84 all in.
Freddy says:

9 Jul9 July 08:07

Am I right in thinking that children over 5 years old returning from a green/amber country will need to have a PCR test upon their return going forward? Really?!
- SteveKicks says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 08:24
  
  Why is that so ridiculous?
  - Freddy says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 08:27
    
    Have you tried testing a 5 year old?
    - Andrew says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 08:30
      
      I have. I don’t know who was more traumatised – the five year old or the parent! Grim.
      - Anna says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 08:36
        
        Even my 15 year old behaves like a 5 year when he has a LFT! We have to coax him to do it by reminding him the only way he would get out of school would be by getting a positive result!
      - mutley says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 10:11
        
        My sons school insists on weekly LFT tests, even now they are on the 8 week school break. 🙁
      - Lady London says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 11:10
        
        I’m much older than that, Anna, and I behave worse than a 5 year old on nasal swab test.
        
        I would sooner have a needle than a nasal swab.
    - Tracey says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 08:42
      
      Forget the back of the throat part and do both nostrils instead. It is written in the NHS booklet that comes with the LFTs that this is an acceptable alternative method. I’ve used it for 20+ tests and never had an inconclusive result.
- Harry T says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 08:49
  
  It’s ridiculous to test children. It’s also silly to test double vaccinated people on return from abroad but hey ho.
  - David says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 09:06
    
    Is it? Please can you provide a link to the evidence that shows fully vaccinated people cannot contract, carry and spread the virus?
    Would be very much appreciated.
  - Alan says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 09:15
    
    As “abroad” generally has about a 10× lower infection rate than here it’s pretty ridiculous to test anyone returning from abroad.
    
    Especially when you can visit a packed Blackpool on an equally packed train without any testing.
  - JDB says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 09:17
    
    Argentina has picked up quite a few cases of double vaccinated people arriving from Spain and USA in the last couple of weeks, all tested negative on departure. One also gave it to his travelling companion who tested positive a few days after him. All Delta variant. Argentina is only allowing in 600 people a day, so they have fairly aggressive testing on arrival/quarantine. It’s a strange situation there as they have had one of the strictest and longest lockdowns of any country but cases/deaths are terrible and their health care system is considered quite good.
    - TGLoyalty says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 09:26
      
      Anyone who thinks a fully vaccinated person can not catch it nor transmit is living in cloud cuckoo land
      
      But the question is around the risk and if it’s great enough that it’s worth PCR tests after travel? I suspect so right now.
      - Freddy says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 11:08
        
        If an adult has been double vaccinated what is the chance of them being hospitalised or die from covid. Maybe we’d better start testing for flu as that will be the bigger killer shortly
      - TGLoyalty says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 12:14
        
        Still higher than a know unvaccinated 18-40 year old so why are they being told they can’t travel …
- TGLoyalty says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 09:20
  
  No 5-10’s will need a pre departure test and over 11’s will need a day 2 PCR test.
  
  0-4 are exempt from all tests.
  - Freddy says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 11:01
    
    I’ve had a further check on the government website. Children aged 5 to 10 will only need to do a day 2 PCR and 11 to 18 year olds will need to take both a pre-departure test and a day 2 PCR.
    - LessCleverAndrew says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 15:45
      
      There is some confusion over pre-departure unfortunately. Is this an outbound pre-departure test or an inbound pre-departure test?
      - Rob says:
        
        9 Jul9 July 16:19
        
        Inbound. Outbound depends on the country you are visiting.
Paul says:

9 Jul9 July 08:15

Who’s going to the Jimmy Anderson event today? Driving up from Suffolk. About to leave.. See you there!
- JP says:
  
  9 Jul9 July 08:21
  
  Where in Suffolk is that?
  - JP says:
    
    9 Jul9 July 08:22
    
    And what is the event?
    - Paul says:
      
      9 Jul9 July 08:26
      
      Hilton event at Old Trafford. Imagine it’s all HFPers.
Louise K says:

9 Jul9 July 08:38

Anyone know if it’s possible to pay Halifax With Blue Curve?