The HfP chat thread – Monday 5th July

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• Mark says:

  5 Jul5 July 08:35

  Hi I have an interesting one today
  I have my Bmw for sale on Ebay and I had a phone call from a guy called Charles in France who wants to buy it without seeing it.
  At first I thought it must be some type of scam but he’s sent me his Facebook page and everything seems to check out with his number and business etc. Moved from the Uk 5 years ago and wants a cheap convertible so the story goes.
  Now here comes the bit that’s got me suspicious..He wants to transfer me the money via our friends Revolut into my Halifax bank account, I don’t have Revolut I went for Curve instead so can anybody help me with info of how that transfer would work?
  Could he reverse it like I can with curve or go back in time or even falsely claim that the car was not fit for purpose and claim the money back somehow?
  I don’t want to get stung at the end of the day so any info on Revolut would be super helpful so I can judge if to go ahead or not!
  If the transfer is un-reversible then i will probably go ahead if its not then I definitely will not.

  Thank you

  • N says:

    5 Jul5 July 08:37

    Who’s going to pick up the car?

    Why can’t they pay you cash.

    • Mark says:

      5 Jul5 July 08:43

      No pick due to covid ( Another red flag?!)
      Shipping which I have arranged and he’s willing to pay for.

  • Chrisasaurus says:

    5 Jul5 July 08:41

    Good grief Mark, is Charles the only buyer you think you’ll get for the car? What on earth is making you even think about it?

    Why is this is even remotely worth the risk!

    • Mark says:

      5 Jul5 July 08:45

      I don’t see it being a risk if the transfer is un reversible?

      • Chrisasaurus says:

        5 Jul5 July 09:17

        Mark step outside and have a word with yourself…

  • Oh! Matron! says:

    5 Jul5 July 08:45

    They don’t have cars for sale in France? Walk away.

    • JDB says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:43

      Agree – walk away. Cars are actually much more expensive in France than here, but even if you have a French manufactured car bought in England and want to use it in France permanently, there is a huge hassle to get a certificate of conformity etc. Also, nobody seems to have asked about having the steering wheel on the wrong side.

      • Lyn says:

        5 Jul5 July 13:45

        Exactly what I was thinking. The steering wheel is the obvious problem, but the lack of conformity to French norms could be a much bigger one. It is even difficult re-importing a car such as a Citroen that is made in France for a foreign market.

  • Craig says:

    5 Jul5 July 08:54

    Stolen FB profile, convoluted payment method, different country, bought unseen, walk away.

    • bafan says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:40

      +1. Turn off the computer and go touch some grass. Has scam written all over it.

  • Toby says:

    5 Jul5 July 08:55

    I’d be very careful here. I think bank transfers are reversible if the other side claims fraud.

    Also remember that Revolut are famed for poor service, so I suspect you could face a scenario where the buyer sends you a test payment but then the second payment is “held up by Revolut” or some such silliness and you end up shipping the car while the buyer pretends to work with revolut to “get the second payment released”

    If it feels too good to be true it is! I’d trust your gut that something is suspicious here and walk away.

  • Neil Spellings says:

    5 Jul5 July 08:55

    Revolut is a bank, just like any other, they just don’t have branches. If they are making a Swift payment into your account via your IBAN account number its no more or less risky than a transfer from a high street bank.

    Generally a sender has to have cleared funds availably in their account to initiate a Swift transfer, so once it arrives in your account then it reasonably safe. There are always exceptions of course where the bank can reverse a transfer e.g. incorrect account numbers used etc.

    • Andrew says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:43

      Revolut is *not* a bank in the UK. They are an e-money institution.

  • Colin MacKinnon says:

    5 Jul5 July 08:58

    Beware, be very beware:

    There are several types of “cleared funds” for cheques at least.

    First is: Cleared for interest (used to be two days after paying in)
    Second is: Cleared for value (used to be four days) This is when you can withdraw the amount
    Third – and most important – is Cleared for Fate (about six working days) ; this is when you can be certain that the payment will be honoured.

    So you can see a scam: once it is Cleared for Value you wave goodbye to the car, and then payment fails to Clear for Fate a day or two later!

    No idea how payments work with Revolut – but if there is any hassle with the payment, Revolut will leave you out on your own, if you are lucky.

    Otherwise, they will then open an anti-money laundering Know Your Client review, and you will have to deal with their quixotic requests – all be messaging on their app.

  • BJ says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:05

    Doesn’t anybody trust anybody anymore? 😀

  • Neil Spellings says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:08

    Why “our friends” Revolut and not the buyers? This raises some alarm bells…The buyer can just make a Swift payment directly from his account, into yours.

    • Mark says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:31

      I agree Neil and thank you for the info and time in replying.

    • TGLoyalty says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:46

      ah I didn’t see this bit. alarm bell and far too much detail to gain your confidence was additional details which weren’t necessary

      SCAM

  • @mkcol says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:26

    Don’t do it.
    Ever.

    If you have trouble understanding why this is clearly a scam go check out Action Fraud website.

    • Mark says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:33

      Reading the action fraud website would make me never want to sell anything ever again.

  • Andrew says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:35

    Is this a windup? It’s like something from an edition of Rip Off Britain!

  • The Savage Squirrel says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:37

    Should be fine.
    Only kidding; absolutely don’t do this. Maybe he is genuine but that’s unfortunate for him. It has every red flag marker for fraud going (let me guess they offered a far better price than anyone else to tempt you into this faff … why do you think that is?). The idea that sending a Facebook page is some sort of proof of anything was the funniest bit. Nobody legitimate does this. The fact that you’re posting here means that deep down you know all this.

    • Mark says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:44

      No. None of that.. Generally the most expensive cars get bought buy people who send money without seeing them.
      Its the payment itself I wanted advice and information on.
      Any car buyer can be a risk (people who use credit cards and live in the UK tend to be the biggest headache)
      If the transfer is un reversible then there is no risk to me at all.
      Thats why I wanted information regarding Revolut.
      Thank you

      • Sandra says:

        5 Jul5 July 10:31

        Personally I wouldn’t even consider it & maybe everyone with any common sense is getting too distrustful these days but, like everyone else, it does shout out scam to me. If you decide to take the risk I hope it isn’t a scam & please report back & let us know how it went.

      • Mike says:

        5 Jul5 July 19:08

        Mark – Noooooooooooo, dont do it

  • Andrew says:

    5 Jul5 July 10:38

    Well, you’re sure to lose your money if you went ahead with that transaction.

    Not forgetting the potential of a CIFAS marker as a consequence of receiving funds from from the “friend” who is clearly laundering money on behalf of “Charles”.

    Funds for car sales should be sent electronically direct to your account and the remitter’s name should match up with the name of the person you are selling to at the very least.

    • David says:

      5 Jul5 July 10:42

      This happened to me years ago with a car I was selling on eBay – wanted me to ship the car to Cyprus – sent me a fake bankers draft for more than the asking price. I sent it back and it came back address unknown.

  • Gormlesstraveller says:

    5 Jul5 July 11:35

    Why is Revolut relevant if you don’t have an account with them? The money would appear in your Halifax account the same way as if it came from Barclays or wherever. Still sounds like a scam though. How would you even ship a car?

  • Char Char says:

    5 Jul5 July 11:35

    Not worth the potential hassle, bad enough for UK buyers.

  • Rich says:

    5 Jul5 July 11:36

    Why on earth does a French resident want a foreign-registered car with the steering wheel on the wrong side? After Brexit? Paying to have it shipped over and pass the contrôle technique, bought sight unseen from some bloke off the internet? It doesn’t add up, and that should be a red flag! Quite apart from the convoluted payment method.

    Is there a slim chance he’s genuine? Maybe. Can you find another buyer in the UK without all these risks? 100%

• Tw33ty says:

  5 Jul5 July 08:51

  Accor has a new amex offer. Spend £350 then £70 back.
  Only 7 hotels in the UK on the list though 😂

  • TGLoyalty says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:00

    Only covered movenpick(none in U.K.), Fairmont, Pullman, MGallery, Sofitel and SO brands?

    Guess Savoy is a Fairmont and missing from the list even though it’s open. Sofitel London is closed as it’s a quarantine hotel.

    • Chrisasaurus says:

      5 Jul5 July 11:28

      Isn’t movenpick an ice cream brand? 🤣

      • Andrew says:

        5 Jul5 July 12:09

        Same heritage. The Ice Cream is now produced by Froneri.

    • Kevin C says:

      5 Jul5 July 11:57

      The Sofitel on the list is Sofitel St James, not a quarantine hotel to the best of my knowledge. Very nice it is too. Sofitel Heathrow is not on the list.

      • TGLoyalty says:

        5 Jul5 July 13:39

        Yes my point is there are two in the U.K. and one is closed …

  • RichS says:

    5 Jul5 July 10:15

    Thank you for pointing this one out, I hadn’t spotted it on my card. Perfect timing as just booked a weekend in Pullman St Pancras.

  • Andrew says:

    5 Jul5 July 11:00

    Even more underwhelming than the Marriott 5000 Avios offer.

• Peter says:

  5 Jul5 July 08:54

  Question about free breakfast for Hilton Gold Member: I’m planning to book next Spring holiday in the USA and it seems that Hilton Gold member can’t have free breakfast in the American Hilton hotels, but only for a small amout hotel credit. Is it true? Thanks.

  • TGLoyalty says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:01

    When you say free breakfast the benefit has only ever been continental

    Yeah during the pandemic they’ve been able to offer a small credit per person instead, no idea of it will go back once buffets are on the cards.

    Ofcourse hotels can still offer whatever they like.

  • berneslai says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:02

    Yes and no. You will get a small amount of hotel credit per person (book for two people, even if you are staying as one) which likely won’t cover the cost of a continental breakfast. However, this is due to finish at the end of 2021 so you could be OK if breakfast is re-instated. I think most (cynical) travellers seem to think that this ‘flexibility’ is here to stay.

  • Peter says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:06

    Thanks for the response. Was thinking of booking Waldorf Astoria in the Vegas next year, but it’s no point booking it without the free breakfast via Hilton. How do we know whether it will go back to the Gold member benefit?

    • Anna says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:23

      Have contacted the hotel and asked how much the credit is? I had a (sadly cancelled) booking in Florida where the credit was $38 per room which covered the full cost of the breakfast.

    • Rob says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:28

      It is meant to go back 1/1/22. Nothing stops you booking and then cancelling in January if it doesn’t switch.

      Remember that some hotels restrict free breakfast anyway (rules is ‘continental’ and a few places do actually impose it). Conrad New York Downtown lets you pick 1 menu item from a limited selection (eg porridge) plus a juice and coffee for example, it’s not a free for all.

      • Peter says:

        5 Jul5 July 09:45

        Well, I also contacted with an travel agent who can provide slightly better price without breakfast, hence I’m hesistate to make a decision now . The price for the USA hotel is not cheap in the next April and I’m not sure if a cheaper price will turn up in the next Jan if I decide to cancel it then.

        • Rob says:

          5 Jul5 July 09:47

          Book via Emyr and you’ll get free breakfast, hotel credit and other stuff thrown in anyway.

        • Peter says:

          5 Jul5 July 09:59

          what’s Emyr Rob?

        • TGLoyalty says:

          5 Jul5 July 10:14

          https://hfp2022.headforpoints.blog/virtuoso-agent-london/

  • BJ says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:10

    Doubt it will be back in USA in any shape or form. Suspect it will go for Gold elsewhere too at some point.

• Mark says:

  5 Jul5 July 08:56

  I need to point out i sold expensive cars for 10 years and people all over the UK and Europe would pay large amounts of money without seeing them.
  It’s the transfer with Revolut thats concerning me.
  Does anybody have information of that works?

  • TGLoyalty says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:03

    I’m not sure why the buyer mentioned Revolut as the transfer to a bank account is as “permanent” as any other bank transfer.

    • TGLoyalty says:

      5 Jul5 July 09:09

      It can only be recalled in the moment between confirming the transfer in your app and it actually being executed. Can’t be recalled from your bank account.

      I put “permanent” because if it’s from a hacked/fraudulent account I thought it could be reversed but I’m not 100% sure

      • Char Char says:

        5 Jul5 July 11:41

        If it is classed as a mistake it can also be reclaimed, I’ve had several random amounts appear and then disappear over the period of 6 months.

  • idrive says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:07

    is he going to use Revolut to pay you or he wants you to open Revolut so it would be internal transfer (Rev-Rev)?

  • peter says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:10

    Would you still sell this car with 1% discount? If that’s a case (this person wants to save on exchange rate) offer 1% discount and ask to do a normal bank transfer?
    I purchased my car (£750 old Micra) last year in a similar way though, without seeing , paid with Revolut to sellers Barclays account.. and all went well, though the car came with a parking ticket received the same day at 7am! Managed to push that back to seller who stopped responding..
    My worry is who would transfer someone £7000 (guessing) without seeing a car, do they consider you could be a fraud and not have that car? What then? 🙂

  • Char Char says:

    5 Jul5 July 11:41

    Just request a different payment method if you are not happy with Revolut

• DZOO says:

  5 Jul5 July 09:28

  On a related note (and Rob/HfP please delete if unsuitable/too tangential here) what’s the best way to sell a Euro2020 finals (Sun) ticket – does anyone have experience selling (or buying) on one of the resale sites? Looks like a bit of a minefield out there…

  It’s a solitary Cat. 1 (face value c £810) so haven’t found a friend who might be interested, and not feeling quite flush enough presently to gift it!

  • OHR says:

    5 Jul5 July 10:19

    I’ll buy it… can we DM on here?

    • DZOO says:

      5 Jul5 July 11:23

      Sorry, just seen this – now taken. Do keep checking as often as you can – more albeit limited availability should drop later in the week on the official UEFA site

      • Chrisasaurus says:

        5 Jul5 July 13:39

        Anyone know precisely where to check on the uefa site? Mobile site at lease is a dog’s dinner…

        • DZOO says:

          5 Jul5 July 14:07

          I think if you search “euro 2020 ticket portal” should be the top hit – you’ll probably need an account (and not sure, sorry, if possible to open a new one at this stage)… there are still tickets for tmrw’s (non-Eng) SF freely available

  • TJones says:

    5 Jul5 July 11:26

    Illegal under the Ticket Touting (Designation of Football Matches) Order 2007.

• ATP says:

  5 Jul5 July 09:34

  Morning everyone,

  Can anyone confirm that the BP Amex offer works on gift cards? Saw a couple of days ago that some tried it but we’re waiting to see if the credit came through. Cheers

  • TGLoyalty says:

    5 Jul5 July 09:39

    Amex have no way of knowing what you brought at the till

    If its the same till you pay for fuel it will work.

    • Steve S says:

      5 Jul5 July 10:56

      I bought petrol Saturday still no notification of redemption

    • Nick says:

      5 Jul5 July 13:32

      @TG for most merchants that’s true, but actually NOT for petrol stations. The reason is that card scheme rules dictate that the merchant must submit with their transaction report the volume of fuel purchased and the purchase amount split between fuel and sundries. So card providers do know whether or not you bought fuel. That said, I don’t know whether they’ve actually invoked a limiter for this offer, just that they could if they wanted to.

      • TGLoyalty says:

        5 Jul5 July 13:41

        Ok fair enough. Terms vs Reality is usually different though. I’ll go spend £30 in my local M&S BP store and see what happens.

      • TGLoyalty says:

        5 Jul5 July 13:45

        There’s nothing in the offer T&C’s to say that it’s fuel only either. Just BP

  • Andrew M says:

    5 Jul5 July 11:53

    1st July for me and also no £10 yet.

• TGLoyalty says:

  5 Jul5 July 09:49

  Nope nothing but ALL this morning

• Will says:

  5 Jul5 July 09:50

  Update from Majorca, my PCR year was done 48 and 25 mins prior to arrival.

  No issues, all very efficient at the airport.

  Border control just deal with passports, after that there’s a health check where you scan your Spanish gov QR code given once you fill in the form declaring negative test and your ID details.

  As far as I could tell they don’t even check your test result, looks as if they leave that up to the airlines before you board in the UK.

  If you did manage to arrive in need of a test, they had what appeared to be a lateral flow test station at the health check.

  Have to say it was incredibly efficient, hire car took far longer than getting through border/health.

  As long as the test result is being validated somewhere in the system (ie I didn’t just upload a fake cert to the BA system) then it works very well esp as it appears lateral flow is now accepted.

  • TGLoyalty says:

    5 Jul5 July 10:02

    Lateral flow is only accepted for EU citizens/residents.

    We’re no longer in the club #brexit

    • Anna says:

      5 Jul5 July 12:15

      I think that’s more to do with how efficient we are at publicising our delta variant numbers!

      • TGLoyalty says:

        5 Jul5 July 13:42

        Nope it only applies to EU/EEA countries not “3rd countries” like us

        • Anna says:

          5 Jul5 July 20:08

          Only if the third country is considered as a “risk” country.

  • marcw says:

    5 Jul5 July 10:31

    If you are suspicious of having COVID-19, or you are randomly screened, they will do a lateral flow test in situ.

  • Simon says:

    5 Jul5 July 13:18

    We landed there Friday afternoon. They scanned our QR codes and I was pulled over to show proof of the dates of my 2 jabs. 20 seconds later we were on our way…. Very impressed. Comparing that to LHR last night – I’d say 80% of e-gates were not letting people through, and there was 1 border control officer checking passports when the e-gate failed. Total debacle. 90 minutes to get through.

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