The HfP chat thread – Tuesday 8th June

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• Steve says:

  8 Jun8 June 09:37

  Any non-obvious tips on getting through to BA to book an open jaw Avios redemption? 30 mins on hold so far to the silver line with no indication of how long it might be, no idea if this is typical at the moment?

  • H says:

    8 Jun8 June 09:52

    Try using the WeQ4U app, no need to hold

    • Steve says:

      8 Jun8 June 09:57

      I will have to investigate this!

      To answer my own question: I got through after 35 mins.

• Kazim says:

  8 Jun8 June 09:42

  Is it normal for your priority pass to be cancelled when you close your Amex Platinum?

  • Super Secret Stuff says:

    8 Jun8 June 09:44

    Yes

  • SJ says:

    8 Jun8 June 09:44

    Yes. I believe unlike the hotel status benefits, PP cancels pretty much immediately

• David says:

  8 Jun8 June 09:43

  Just got a really good deal off virgin. Turned my March flights to LA in upper into a FTV and two free return upgrade vounchers ( cost £1000 in Black Friday sale) . Now reboooked for April 2022 in sale – virgin covered the cost difference and I still have the upgrade vouchers!

  • kitten says:

    8 Jun8 June 09:56

    Well done David

• Dutchy says:

  8 Jun8 June 09:47

  Does anyone have any recent data points on the Virgin Points to Hilton points transfer time – website says up to 30 days, but wanted to get a sense of how long it actually takes

  • Rob says:

    8 Jun8 June 10:28

    Very varied feedback from readers in the past implies that it MAY be a bulk transfer once every month – so it could be 2 days and it could be 30 days.

  • Jay says:

    8 Jun8 June 17:57

    My last one took 56 days and 3 chaser calls…. Virgin were useless and blamed Hilton and vice versa.

• EDA says:

  8 Jun8 June 09:53

  Does anyone know if I can use the LoungeKey on HSBC WE to access 2 lounges at the same airport on the same day?

  • Rob says:

    8 Jun8 June 10:27

    Yes, not an issue.

  • Polly says:

    8 Jun8 June 14:22

    And Grain Store…LGW many times

• David D says:

  8 Jun8 June 09:54

  Data point: PRG welcome and referral bonus: I received both this week soon after hitting the £3k spend target, for a total of 32k points.

  • Super Secret Stuff says:

    8 Jun8 June 10:05

    Nice well done

• Triath5 says:

  8 Jun8 June 10:06

  Apologies for the repost but I wrote this last night and it got buried in the n’th nested comment…Re Amex Plat insurance when going to an ‘amber’ country:

  1) Does anyone know if Amex Plat insurance will cover:
  a) Any type of claim NOT related to Covid? E.g. accident doing summer sports or whatever? Someone posted here recently that in a phone call with Amex they were assured if it had nothing to do with Covid you were covered, but things like flight or hotel cancellations aren’t for obvious reasons.

  b) Car hire excess or any claim resulting from a car hire in general? (As per the above) In the event that Amex doesn’t cover the above, and still avoiding the car rental excess (crazy prices), what are the alternatives? Would any of the standalone policies not be voided by the ‘non-essential’ travel advice? This could be quite an expensive affair!

  2) Can the EHIC cover most bases if it still hasn’t expired? I understand it wouldn’t cover repatriation or mountain helicopter rescue or whatever, but mine hasn’t expired yet, and I understand things like A&E treatment is covered, and anything you couldn’t ‘reasonably wait until returning to your home country for’. Is this not the case?

  Thanks everyone. Fingers crossed Spain goes on the green list soon…have an upcoming 65 day trip!

  • Anna says:

    8 Jun8 June 15:50

    Yes, valid EHIC covers you, when that expires you need to apply for a GHIC, which effectively replaces it.

    Also got fingers crossed but think it’s unlikely anywhere will go green for the next couple of months tbh.

• Jack says:

  8 Jun8 June 10:12

  BA don’t plan on attending my upcoming MCOL hearing regarding EC261 rerouting for cancelled flights (they finally agreed to rerouting, after I filed MCOL, but refuse to rebook in First on a different airline and only will offer Business). Instead they have filed a witness statement. I’m guessing this makes it less likely I’ll receive a last minute settlement offer? The case seems quite clear now, given it comes down to how you interpret ‘comparable transport conditions’. Any advice would be much appreciated.

  • meta says:

    8 Jun8 June 10:38

    What does the witness statement say?

    • Jack says:

      8 Jun8 June 10:52

      To paraphrase, I need to prove it is comparable transport and cannot be deemed too expensive for BA to provide the cost of such flights. The reroute I was offered was not deemed suitable by me (as I refused), and therefore I am only due a refund and they are not liable for any alternative costs of flights.

      • Lady London says:

        8 Jun8 June 11:04

        pathetic.

        Did the BA intern write that one?

        What do you actually want.
        What is the route.
        Do you defo need to still travel in First.
        What was ticket issue purchase date, original travel date, date of travel you need, what date have they offered to rebook you to.

        • Jack says:

          8 Jun8 June 11:10

          It’s to Seychelles. I want to just be rerouted in First, it was an Avios ticket, so zero chance of ever being to fly to Seychelles again using Avios given the route was suspended. The agreed to my requested dates – but would only let me fly on Qatar. And I have emails from BA customer service where they refused any rerouting, stating it was a refund or nothing. I am surprised though, if I win I will win the cash, but surely they can negotiate a far better fare than me even on a competitor, so why let this go to hearing? Unless they think they’ll win at the hearing.

        • Lady London says:

          8 Jun8 June 12:17

          Comparable conditions seems to have been universally viewed by judges as same cabin class as booked. According to any report I’ve ever seen. So I think you’re safe they have to transport you in First.

          Within reason, a notably longer overall journey time end to end, due to a proposed reroute requiring an extra stop, perhaps with a few hours gap whereas you had booked a direct flight would also make it less comparable. Whining about undesirable (eg horrible early hours of the morning connect on Doha) timing of connections won’t wash, however.

          Factually Qatar J is viewed by travellers as very close in quality to BA F. I think you’re pretty safe BA is not going to stand up and say that in court though. (It’s quite delicious to see the quandary BA is in there – they can’t admit it but those who travel, know it’s the truth.)

          So if it’s quality you’re looking for factually it’s close enough to the same. I’d accept the change in Doha tbh.

          The downgrade to J that accepting Qatar would involve, also gets you 75% reimbursement per seat, of what you paid for the first seat in First.(so 75% for each of both seats if on a 241). The court normally awards cash rather than avios back if you paid any. A rate accepted by courts has been to have 1.6p per avios back as that is BA’s standard selling price. So 1.2p net (at 75%). I defo wouldn’t want avios back and standard is for courts to be asked for reimbursement at that cash rate (explain where the 1.6 comes from) and to award it. If BA tried to circumvent this by offering avios I’d refuse. You can only claim the 75% after the flight so keep your boarding passes.

          So if you’re happy with that I’d take it but put into court now a polite note stating if forced to fly in the lower class of Business on Qatar instead of the higher class of First you booked on BA, you wish it to be noted you will expect to be reimbursed the 75% of what was paid for First Class provided by EU261 (now in UK law I think it’s called UK261??) due to involuntary downgrade, per seat. State you would be claiming this after the flight and wanted to make BA aware of this and ask them to confirm they will pay this without issue when claimed. (show them the calculation of how much you’ll be claiming if you want – money value only including avios reimbursed at 1.6%x 75% same as the rest of the cash paid except APD and airport charges).

          If you *do* still want First maybe…. below

        • Lady London says:

          8 Jun8 June 12:31

          Seychelles is a highly prized/aspired to romantic / holiday destination. Flying in First was booked as a special treat / honeymoon / romantic holiday / anniversary celebration / whatever. Just so you / and your companion could once in your life experience the peak of BA’, your national airline’s/ British service, on a longhaul flight to and from such a memorable destination with the flight experience in First on British Airways being very much a part of this experience. A once in a lifetime memory with your partner etc.

          So as this is a once in a lifetime experience you really want to to fly in First.

          Who else do you want to fly on? CX? beware BA would have the choice to put you on a worse airline if the travel times are reasonably close.

          Personally I’d be on Qatar like a shot. you could put somewhere in your courteous statement to the court that ‘so as to have this matter fully resolved’ about wanting BA to confirm they’d reimburse the 75% readily… this kinda sends a signal more court time will be wasted with another mcol if BA doesn’t pay this and I suspect judges like that ( no need to say so directly unless BA does not confirm).

      • Anna says:

        8 Jun8 June 11:10

        I don’t recall anything in EU261 saying replacement flights can’t be too expensive!

        • Babyg says:

          8 Jun8 June 13:56

          I flew BA first to SEZ, it was quite disappointing (compared with Qatar J),
          I do think people are forgetting we are in a pandemic and really should try and take a balanced view on what they actually want vs what they think they can get. I would take Qatar J, ask for some points back and enjoy my holiday…

        • Lady London says:

          8 Jun8 June 18:01

          @BabyG did BA take a ‘balanced view’ when they simply cancelled their flights back from another faraway longhaul destination (I think it was the Maldives) and simply refused to reroute people onto other aircraft leaving them stranded? in direct violation of the law requiring them to provide transport for people home even on another carriers? And the passenger abandoned by British Airways far from home is supposed to take a “balanced view” of being treated by BA like this?

          When BA abandons a route it seems they think they can also walk away from their legal obligations. This is people we”re talking about. Abandoned. By BA.

          So no, they aren’t worth cutting any slack on this.

  • JDB says:

    8 Jun8 June 11:45

    There are interpretative guidelines for EU261-
    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:52016XC0615(01)&rid=1

    They say “if possible” you shouldn’t be downgraded. In essence BA seems to be trying to argue against itself – their marketing department makes out that First is a distinctively superior product at every stage of your journey, the legal department is presumably saying it is ‘comparable’ to Club, trying to replace a gold necklace with a silver one and suggest it is comparable/similar. I don’t know whether your case will be decided at a hearing or on paper, but always remember that District Judges are very pressed for time and often not too interested so you need to keep it really simple and factual (not emotive). The DJ probably doesn’t travel in F either…

    Unfortunately, the presence of the word ‘comparable’ potentially allows the judge to decide either way, so you need to provide him/her with all the ammo to decide in your favour and the products are not so similar/comparable, without descending into minutiae. You can show that F on your route is sold by BA or IATA published fare at a premium of xx% and the reality is that this is, in reality, the sole issue why BA won’t rebook you in F on another airline.

    If there are any serious factual errors in BA’s witness statement that you think could affect the outcome, you should raise those as soon as possible. It is usually best to put your own best case forward, rather than trying to rebut each of their points.

    I hope it goes well.

    • Jonathan says:

      8 Jun8 June 16:15

      QR don’t fly First to Seychelles (or anywhere at the moment while the A380’s are grounded). I’d be wary of asking for EK first as it’s not comparable in price terms or amenities. You’ve also got to consider where the DJ’s sympathies will lie in the grey areas (comparable is not black & white).

      It pains me to give BA any slack but they are suffering here through little fault of their own.

      I’d take QR J with the proviso it’s a downgrade & therefore downgrade compo applies. Shows you are being reasonable & the cash rebate would more than soften the blow of QR J instead of BA F.

  • H says:

    8 Jun8 June 12:12

    Let us know how it goes Jack, best of luck. I’m in the process of responding to BA’s defence to CEDR about rerouting outside of ticket validity for a cancelled flight, my situation relates to flights which wouldn’t be operating till outside ticket validity anyway. @Lady London any tips please? Next steps after CEDR, I will file a MCOL claim as BA is arguing they are not obligated to extend ticket validity as they reckon this is not in line with EU261 and their conditions of carriage.

  • Richie says:

    8 Jun8 June 12:22

    If the QR option was flying Qsuite all the way on A350/A380 aircraft compared to BA B777 First, the comparison is a bit harder.

    • Lady London says:

      8 Jun8 June 12:47

      It’s in the labelling. BA is hoisted by their own petard . They cannot deny their own marketing. To externals and judges who have a court schedule and not a lot of time, BA runs Y, J, and F. F is marketed as the apex of quality airline service,a class apart etc. Passenger would have booked Business if they’d wanted it ( on either airline, if asked). They chose First.

      Definitely don’t go beyond that – no deeper. Just the titles is enough. Any more detail could open a chink for BA to open. Booked First. Got Business (Club) involuntarily due to BA’s cancellation. Fact. btw I personally find the robotic service on Qatar far less top class than a truly professional friendly personable British Airways crew in the higher classes.

  • YC says:

    8 Jun8 June 15:07

    Similar position to you Jack. I’m still waiting for BA’s response before going down the MCOL route. May I know what date you requested and what was the original departure date? Did you also pre-book a refundable rate on another airline before MCOL?

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