The HfP chat thread – Tuesday 6th April

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• Voltron says:

  6 Apr6 April 02:45

  Has anyone’s points and miles strategy changed post COVID?

  I’ve personally cashed out all of my avios to nectar, as never managed to get value from the BA card for years due to kids and just cheaper going on other airlines.

  Will probably move my last chunk of virgin points to hilton.

  As will have over a million HH points, starting to think if it is worth keeping marriott point’s, and if I should just do marriott to avios to nectar?

  • YC says:

    6 Apr6 April 07:12

    No change for me. Aspirational/premium redemptions and hotels have generally got more expensive. So happy to keep collecting miles and hotel points. One big trip would see the points balance drop significantly. If not looking for premium options, then I would think cash is looking more attractive.

    I would keep the hotel points as they can be quite useful for last minute trips when cash is high. Ur taking a big haircut by cashing out those hotel points. I would jump at buying Marriott points at those rates

    • Anna says:

      6 Apr6 April 08:47

      +1 – I’m hoping the IHG decide the current devaluation is madness as they are my favourite loyalty brand at this time, however if not I will use IHG points for lower-end stays and go back to focusing on Hilton and Marriott. Also booking via Emyr gets such great benefits on IHG properties which don’t offer status benefit like free breakfast I am tending towards using him for all higher-end IHG bookings now. Let’s just hope more properties don’t start withdrawing from Bon Vivant like the O2 has! Because we are lucky that Covid coincided with a change to better financial circs for us (unlike a lot of people, obviously), I’m happy to pay £200 – £300 per night for a great hotel and use points where they have value – if this is a week at a HI somewhere I really want to visit, then it’s all good!

      • BuildBackBetter says:

        6 Apr6 April 09:05

        I’d be surprised if they reverse the recent changes. IHG is now half way in becoming an Accor. When they start to devalue their credit cards and ambassador program, the transition will be complete.

        • FFoxSake says:

          6 Apr6 April 09:57

          They already have Accor levels of Customer Service functions nailed…

        • Dickie H says:

          6 Apr6 April 13:24

          From a points perspective, Ambassador has already been devalued: the 10% rebate on redemption bookings for those who renewed Ambassador was dropped last year….

        • Rob says:

          6 Apr6 April 14:51

          It’s not clear if this is the case. Apparently there is still one version of the Ambassador webpage which still offers it.

        • Dickie H says:

          6 Apr6 April 15:43

          I certainly hope you’re right Rob – that 10% rebate was a useful part of the overall Ambassador package!

        • AndyGWP says:

          6 Apr6 April 21:16

          I’m being offered 15k points if I renew ambassador. Is that normal? 🤷🏼‍♂️

  • Bobri says:

    6 Apr6 April 07:17

    During COVID, and to a slightly less extent now, Avios was the best way to travel on my typical routes. Low costs slashed flights, cash rates were expensive on last minute bookings, but plenty of Avios availability

    Now need to burn as much as possible before everyone devalues. IHG was the first salvo

    • kitten says:

      6 Apr6 April 10:38

      perhaps IHG is operating the opposite view “now need to devalue before everyone burns as much as possible” 🙂

  • TGLoyalty says:

    6 Apr6 April 07:41

    Nothing changes.

    Glad you’ve got value out of Avios to Nectar. I won’t be following.

    For me Points are there to give flexibility when you need/want to be somewhere and cash prices are high.

    For all the cries of IHG devaluation I’m still seeing very cheap prices globally.

    • Roy says:

      6 Apr6 April 10:46

      It seems that the cap has risen, though, for many hotels, and is now significantly higher than the old points value pre dynamic pricing.

      At the moment, there are still attractive deals to be had, but it remains to be seen how few and far between these will be once demand picks up…

  • Harry T says:

    6 Apr6 April 07:58

    Cashing out to Nectar doesn’t make sense for me, as I know I can achieve outsized value using air miles. However, I also have no kids and a pretty flexible annual leave set up.

    I have paid cash the majority of the time during the pandemic, as the prices have been very good, especially for healthcare workers. However, there will be a time when prices rebound and I am accumulating points for then. I think people who cash out points for milk and bananas now will be disappointed when they are trying to book a nice hotel in summer 2022-2023 and their only option is to get gouged by cash rates.

    • Andrew says:

      6 Apr6 April 08:19

      But it’s not really an option to cash out hotel points to Nectar.

      • Harry T says:

        6 Apr6 April 08:23

        Bonvoy > Avios > Nectar

        Bad idea though.

        • Freddy says:

          6 Apr6 April 08:29

          Wouldn’t say my points strategy has changed due to covid specifically but rather new cards and partnerships. I’ve moved all my business spend to the Amazon Business Amex from the BAPP card due to the earn rate and ease for redemption.Previously I had spent on the Marriott amex until the rate cut.

          Personal spend has been on the ARCC but will probably move to the nectar amex to give me flexibility in cashing out for bananas and milk and also the option for avios if an outsized redemption comes up. With 3 kids the chance of an avios redemption is low but good to have the option there.

    • kitten says:

      6 Apr6 April 10:39

      +1.

      Sit tight for a couple of years and watch. Then decide

  • Bs says:

    6 Apr6 April 08:58

    Yup. All avios out to nectar, given the avios short haul devaluation and my imminent iPad purchase which I’m aiming to pay for with avios. I just don’t see 0.8p of value per avios returning on flying anytime soon. And if I wait around, there may be another devaluation…

    • The Savage Squirrel says:

      6 Apr6 April 09:17

      Is there not still a £200 limit to Nectar purchases though? Hope they go back to £500 as I quite fancy a PS5 ( although only at the point that doesn’t involve refreshing websites at 1am).

      • Rob says:

        6 Apr6 April 09:58

        Apparently there are two Argos websites. You don’t see it clearly, but there are – one is a staging / trial site where things are tested which only a small percentage get. This 2nd site can take £500 of Nectar points. The ‘main’ site can still only take £200 worth. At some point the £500 functionality will be fully rolled out. So I am told, anyway.

        • Andrew says:

          6 Apr6 April 10:13

          And Argos also sell through ebay a selection of products (just search Argos store) and then there is no limit to the nectar points you can redeem.

  • BJ says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:33

    Half n’ half for me, but even that gives me a three year cushion on planned BAEC redemptions based on current award chart and amex 241. Normally I just work on current year plus two year cushion but the extra one will provide for the BAEC longhaul devaluation which must surely now be just around the corner.

  • will says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:57

    I’ve got more Avios than I’ll burn any time soon so I’ve started to cash out to Nectar, pretty much as good as cash as you can just buy things off your partner on ebay.

    IHG points are a concern but I generate them through the CC and as above I still see great value in a lot of places, hopefully the devaluation is slow.

    Hilton I keep just for experience redemptions these days, can’t remember the last time I found a hilton worth booking on points, my hilton points are years old and converted from Virgin.

    Marriott points are my favourite right now, lots of excellent hotels available on points, can turn them into AA miles which can be very useful in a tight spot and as a back up can just convert to Avios.

    Don’t know what to do with Virgin points. Sat on about 400k, not really interested in hilton points, hard to figure out what to do with these really as I cant see me using them any time soon and I do worry about the airlines future.

    Personally I see airlines as a risk, got to be a possibility they fold, delete all liabilities then get bought up with fresh balance sheets or pennies on £ for loyalty scheme points.

    • Harry T says:

      6 Apr6 April 09:59

      Use the Virgin miles for short haul in Europe and ANA J/F to and from Japan.

      • kitten says:

        6 Apr6 April 10:42

        good for return halves on Delta from the US surely?

  • memesweeper says:

    6 Apr6 April 10:12

    Not much. I try and earn/hold with things like MR that can be transferred when required. Last summer, and now this summer, being able to make flexible hotel and airline bookings with minimal and known risk is a godsend. Flexibility makes points bookings right now fantastic.

    Longer term, of course, there’s going to be an unknown amount of fall out for the travel industry and therefore the implications for points collectors. Perhaps more availability in Business class/hotels as business travel drops off? Perhaps less interest from carriers and hotel chains in funding generous points schemes as margins are squeezed and cash becomes king? who knows…

  • TGLoyalty says:

    6 Apr6 April 10:18

    Have you now switched your cards from points to Amex 1.25% back card?

• BrianGK says:

  6 Apr6 April 02:58

  Random question re fscs £85k protection on investments in the unlikely event of requiring it. Does this only protect only your deposits or does it also protect any profits on the investments up to the limit?

  Eg invested £60k and market value currently £80k. Are you only protected for the £60k or would fscs cover you for the full £80k?

  Thanks

  • BS says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:01

    You say ‘market value’. FSCS protection does not usually provide protection against investments (with a few bond exceptions). As such it usually only provides protection for your cash or cash saving products. It would provide protection for the interest of a fixed rate bond that had not yet paid for example.
    I suspect what you are talking about is not FSCS protected, but the selling of the product is FSCS regulated, but do elaborate further.

  • BuildBackBetter says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:10

    As BS mentioned, cash with banks / platforms is usually protected. When platforms collapse, fund investments / shares are not at risk, though it may take time to liquidate / transfer them. When a fund guaranteed by FSCS collapses, its 85k in total, including any profits.

  • Genghis says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:14

    Market value.
    Take a look around here
    https://www.fscs.org.uk/what-we-cover/investments/.

    However, I wouldn’t just limit yourself to £85k. Investments themselves are held by a separate custodian, assuming you go with a big, trusted name (more likely to be fraud at a smaller firm). If the broker or the investment manager then go bust, the assets still exist. The administrator may ask that asset holders take a haircut: I think a recent example was 10% to pay for the costs. So splitting things up per broker and investment manager is sensible for larger balances, but I wouldn’t split everything out into £85k pots.

  • The Savage Squirrel says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:22

    If it’s really a concern, just use a large UK high street institution. As we saw in 2008 they are ultimately backed by the government so will not fail. I’d agree that service institution diversification is still wise (having ISA and SIPP with different providers for example) as sorting out the mess after collapse of providers has often meant funds not accessible for a few months.

    • TGLoyalty says:

      6 Apr6 April 10:20

      Most hold in trust. Paperwork may take a while to sort out (in which case your “gain” might be at risk but any reputable institution like HL iWeb etc are secure.

      • BrianGK says:

        6 Apr6 April 12:20

        Hi thanks all for the replies and information. I should have provided more info though. The question was referring to either stocks and shares isa accounts or general investment accounts with the main providers, either high street, online or robo advisers.

        No specific concerns but as I am approaching the £85k mark with Nutmeg in my stocks and shares isa it got me thinking whether to start a new one elsewhere.

        It sounds like market value (so including any profits) is protected in most cases from the replies/info.

        Thanks

• Michael C says:

  6 Apr6 April 04:16

  Slightly creepy BA email “We need to speak to you about your British Airways booking XXXXXX” – it’s a voucher for my MIL’s cancelled Jan flight LHR-GRU: any ideas what it might be about?
  Was also wondering…as they don’t tell you youcher value in email..what if they say it’s no longer worth $1000 (told by phone) but $500?! There’s no record of anything anywhere!

  • Crafty says:

    6 Apr6 April 06:41

    I hate this “we need to speak to you” tone that some companies take. It sounds schoolteacherly and puts the stress and onus on you, when they have the knowledge of what’s to discuss and you don’t! Virgin Media do this too.

  • Jonathan says:

    6 Apr6 April 07:18

    You must have a record of what you paid for the original flight? The voucher is for that amount.

    I agree the phraseology is a bit off but I wouldn’t call it creepy, they’re hardly going to be leaving horses heads in your bed if you don’t call!

  • TGLoyalty says:

    6 Apr6 April 07:39

    Well there is a record as it’s the value of your original booking which came with a confirmation email.

    • memesweeper says:

      6 Apr6 April 07:42

      +1 — this is the only authoritative source the customer ever sees. Keep a copy.

    • Michael C says:

      6 Apr6 April 08:35

      It was only the return leg, TG, so not sure how they’ll work it out: in theory should be for more than half, as it was the LHR-GRU leg, with higher “charges”. Will ring in a bit and say I want to speak to THEM!

      • TGLoyalty says:

        6 Apr6 April 10:22

        The Avios is easy the real taxes are actual costs the YQ would be different.

        Not sure your voucher is still wrapped up in it as the outbound has been used but perhaps it can still used for a single leg ex UK?

  • IanM says:

    6 Apr6 April 08:23

    WHy not phone them and find out?

  • Jamie says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:11

    You need to ask Mystic Meg, not HfP.

  • Blair says:

    6 Apr6 April 11:10

    Yes I have had same for a partially used booking I cancelled due to lockdowns being imposed at final destination. Got email, rang them, got a residual value quoted. Later noticed it had not been converted to e-voucher, rang up, got quoted an entirely different residual value. “Who told you that original amount?” “You did!” Suffice to say it’s gone for ‘review’ with rates dept(?)

• John says:

  6 Apr6 April 06:45

  Vanguard is straight as a ruler for me 🙁

  • Genghis says:

    6 Apr6 April 11:19

    +1

    • Lawro says:

      6 Apr6 April 12:52

      If this is what I think it is, it’s a very recent change. No issues on 31/03 but couldn’t understand why it wasn’t go through in the last few days.

      • The real John says:

        6 Apr6 April 14:25

        I got the app notification to approve the transaction, but then nothing, not even a declined and it doesn’t show up on the underlying at all

  • Nigel W says:

    6 Apr6 April 14:36

    Must have been a recent change. I put some money in via a curvy card via Hong Kong two weeks ago and it went in fine.

  • mark says:

    6 Apr6 April 15:27

    Using Hong Kong? If so they have just done some changes..I had the email a few weeks ago.

    • Nigel W says:

      6 Apr6 April 16:18

      Yes, with Hong Kong.

    • Lawro says:

      7 Apr7 April 00:42

      An email from Hong Kong or Vanguard?

• Craig says:

  6 Apr6 April 07:31

  First 1500 Avios from Barclays hit my BA account today. No £12 fee taken yet.

  • 747_Brat says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:09

    +1

  • Red Flyer says:

    6 Apr6 April 10:52

    Same here – account opened 2/3 and 1500 Avios posted 31/3.

  • Richster says:

    6 Apr6 April 12:15

    Same here, and the extra 700 for having a mortgage with them. Marvellous! And the 2500 sign-up fee (was already premier). So 4700 earned so far, yipppeeee!

    • Keely says:

      6 Apr6 April 13:40

      They’ve given me the extra 2500 too for being an existing customer even though it was meant to be payable after 4 months 😀

      • Richster says:

        6 Apr6 April 13:54

        Ooopski! Don’t you just love these IT mistakes! Still What amounts to £20 (@ 0.8p/Av) early is a winner. Time to look at somewhere frivolous to spend it 🙂

      • kevbar says:

        6 Apr6 April 18:21

        +1, maybe 4 months was for new customers…

• TJ says:

  6 Apr6 April 07:50

  I flew BA CE to Cyprus yesterday. BA had swapped the usual A320 with a 787. As a result, club passengers were seated in either First, CW or Premium cabins (it was a fairly busy flight). I was allocated a seat in Premium. When I flagged this with the steward, he said that it was unlikely that BA would compensate in any way as the Premium seats were an improvement on the usual CE seats. Has anyone had any experience of this and is it worth pursuing any compensation?

  • Anna says:

    6 Apr6 April 08:03

    Did you get CE service? If so it would be harder to argue that you received an inferior experience, however I suspect that the steward was trying to fob you off slightly and that if you bring it up with BA you might well get a chunk of avios as compo. I’ve had 5k and 10k avios for things like the F & B service not getting to us during the flight so you could reasonably that the seating wasn’t what you’d expect.

    • TJ says:

      6 Apr6 April 09:21

      Thx Anna, we received the full CE service … it was just the seating where we were ‘downgraded’. I think I will flag to BA…if nothing else they should have informed club passengers in advance. I was actually not too bothered but others were livid.

      • Lady London says:

        6 Apr6 April 10:51

        Reports here they’ve refused a couple of claims for this before on the basis that the aircraft was better than the usual shorthaul one so you were still “upgraded”.

        I would feel aggrieved still because PY is more packed together seating (regardless of occupancy) so less personal space. BA’s view will be you are kvetching because others got an upgrade but you only got what you paid for.

        Would be easier if you would have had a lie-flat or more reclinable seat, but sounds like not even less reclinable!

        I would still ask BA for remedy though, please let us know how you get on.

  • Yuff says:

    6 Apr6 April 08:32

    That is a gutter though, as CW is soooo much nicer than PE and Cyprus is a fair way to go in CE to start with 😥

    • Anna says:

      6 Apr6 April 08:55

      Granted – TJ can you book your seat for the return leg? What configuration is showing for that?
      We flew long haul in CW a couple of years ago and by chance it was a Saturday when BA used a 4 class cabin on a 3 class route. The flight was full and we ended up getting allocated seats in the F cabin which of course was very pleasant!
      I think of 2019 as the year we flew twice in F and 2020 as the payback 😂

  • Jamie says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:16

    I imagine they’d laugh you out of the room. You know what a A320 CE seat looks like, and what you actually sat in. Ask yourself which is the better seat (as well as which plane has an actual separate cabin), and I’d suggest there’s your answer… which, to be clear, is no.

    • The Savage Squirrel says:

      6 Apr6 April 10:07

      This. You want compensation because you got an operational upgrade to a better product than you paid for, but someone else got a bigger operational upgrade? On that basis all the people who booked CE and got a CW seat to Cyprus should be asking for compo as well, just because a few people got First!

      • Anna says:

        6 Apr6 April 10:40

        But it wasn’t an upgrade though. It was Premium Economy which is technically inferior to Business Class! Agree it depends a lot on whether you didn’t get a window seat you’d booked or the row was full, which wouldn’t happen in CE.

      • WaynedP says:

        6 Apr6 April 11:10

        +1

        I agree that this “workers in the vineyard” (Matt 20:1-16, other similar wisdoms appear in many other religious/societal norms contracts) always piques my interest in human behavioural attitudes when it regularly pops up.

        And I would concur that invariably one should be uncomplainingly grateful to receive an unexpected “bonus” over and above objective expectations, which is clearly the case here – the increased seat pitch and width alone is enough to celebrate, but the expected minimum F&B offerings are also important, as others have pointed out.

        But there may be another valid challenge that OP could be thinking of. Parable showcases an implacably just landowner, and in absence of any other info, I’d usually also argue that same benefit of doubt should be afforded to BA.

        But if the 787 had a first class section, then it must have been 787-9 (not -8) version which has a total of 8 F and 42 J (=50) seats, according to HfP’s own article on best BA seats.

        How many J seats were BA selling on this flight, given that maximum number of CE seats on A320 is 48 (according to Seatguru). If extra capacity needed was all down to Euro Traveller demand, then all pax that paid for CE should have been able to be accommodated in F or J, and some lucky Y pax would have been bumped up to Premium Y.

        However, if BA continued to sell >48 CE seats at full mkt rate achieveable, then OP has an objectively valid point to question why they paid a J-equivalent fare, but weren’t able to be accommodated in an equivalent J-type cabin (as others among the 48 were).

        Point becomes even stronger if (as I have personally seen) BA puts significant numbers of its own crew into J seats for relocation purposes, which I’m not suggesting was the case for this flight.

        Just offering another consideration for debate.

        • Jonathan says:

          6 Apr6 April 12:35

          BA are perfectly entitled to put staff in F/J if they are positioning to operate the return leg. LCA is at the limits of permitted duty length for 1 crew to operate out & back & this is reliant on the crew schedules over the previous days plus the report time not being early AM. If they send a fresh crew to operate return leg then they have to travel in conditions that facilitate rest. 4 1/2 hours in an economy seat doesn’t meet this criteria. I suspect a large number of the passengers in CW were actually crew.

          Safety always trumps passenger ego I’m afraid!

        • WaynedP says:

          6 Apr6 April 13:41

          “Safety always trumps passenger ego” – absolutely no contest, and all reasonable folk would understand BA meeting valid operational requirements.

          But if crew relocation in flat beds was primary motive for plane change, what a missed opportunity on BA’s part by not announcing that fact, and then stating that 39 CE pax would be receiving a better seat/experience than they paid for by being bumped up to WTP. (Any legitimately sold surplus CE fares in excess of 39 treated to F seat using BA’s right to upgrade higher BAEC member at own discretion).

          BA should have all pax info available and common sense comms to emerge looking good from this situation, rather than leaving some “livid” according to OP. Anything else is poor operational conduct by BA, including selling >capacity CE fares (if that was the case) on a plane they knew would have to accommodate significant number of relocated crew.

  • Andrew (@andrewseftel) says:

    6 Apr6 April 10:10

    Was the seat next to you empty? If not, that could be a good angle to complain with as it’s a key part of the CE offering.

    • memesweeper says:

      6 Apr6 April 10:14

      it’s actually guaranteed window or aisle — so they can accomodate the little planes out of City. If you didn’t get a window or aisle, complain about that. If you didn’t get the meal and drinks, again, worthy of complaint. As for complaining about the seat itself — forget it.

      • lumma says:

        6 Apr6 April 11:03

        It’s amazing what people will moan about. Premium Economy seats are basically USA domestic 1st class on most planes, Club Europe catering is usually pretty decent on the longer routes.

        Accept the bonus and move on.

        • Babyg says:

          6 Apr6 April 16:43

          exactly this……

  • Stanley says:

    6 Apr6 April 11:05

    Surprised that CW and F cabins werent big enough to take the CE passengers from one A320 flight ? ?

    • TGLoyalty says:

      6 Apr6 April 11:13

      All those second home owners …

      • Jonathan says:

        6 Apr6 April 12:43

        It was a 787-8. These have 35J seats split across 2 mini cabins.

        Suspect the forward cabin was reserved for crew operating return leg. This leaves 10 CW seats in the rear CW cabin for very lucky CE passengers & 25 WTP seats for plain lucky CE passengers.

        Essentially a non-story.

  • Jonathan says:

    6 Apr6 April 12:17

    The “Club” in Club Europe/World is irrelevant as they are completely different products. You can’t extrapolate that CE = CW seat on a widebody.

    Closest correlation is when the mid haul A321’s were retired & Amman/Cairo moved to standard A320/321. They did offer compensation or refund to customers who had bought the advertised flatbed service at what was clearly a flatbed price.

    If no one was sat in CW/First would you have felt like you’d been downgraded in a WTP seat? I get it’s annoying to see others getting a “double upgrade” but you still got more than advertised & expected so wouldn’t waste my time with a complaint. This scenario has also played out on Flyertalk before & the result was no compo offered.

  • Terri says:

    6 Apr6 April 13:47

    I booked an economy seat on Iberia and as a silver was able to select a seat in premium economy.

    The giveaway for me is the word “economy” in the title. If you booked a business ticket then you should be accommodated in a business class seating area. However “premium” it might be it is still called “economy” and not “club”. Y+ is not J.

    • Jonathan says:

      6 Apr6 April 15:52

      A name is meaningless. The boarding pass would say Club Europe & anyone can see that a WTP seat is substantially better than the usual CE offering. Assuming you get the CE soft product as well then there’s nothing economy about it.

      As already mentioned, in reality there would only have been 10 CW seats available to paying passengers so what were BA supposed to do?

• Alex says:

  6 Apr6 April 08:06

  First 1500 Avios from Barclays Premier were transferred to my Executive Club account alongside the 2500 bonus for switching from Blue Rewards to Avios Rewards. No 12 quid taken from my account. I did have 4 quid taken, thought, and got 7 in Blue Rewards. Looks like Barclays may have some quirks to work out…

  • Kai says:

    6 Apr6 April 08:45

    Same here, or hopefully they never work it out?

• C says:

  6 Apr6 April 08:45

  Morning. Do transactions via PayPal count for bonus points offers, specifically the ‘spend £200 get 1000 bonus MR points’ on Amex gold? Thanks

  • 747_Brat says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:14

    I was denied the bonus points for this offer for an eBay transaction I did using PayPal. Amex CS also didn’t uphold the claim and pointed to a condition in the T&Cs which explicitly excluded all transactions managed by payment aggregators. But YMMV.

  • Andrew says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:27

    But the bonus Avios on BAPP currently being offered is paying out on PayPal transactions, despite the terms saying it’s excluded. So it’s anyone’s guess. Try and see what happens.

  • TGLoyalty says:

    6 Apr6 April 09:49

    Did for me.

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