The HfP chat thread – Wednesday 10th February

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Tracey says:

10 Feb10 February 09:18

“ Vaccine ‘passport’ is acknowledged as discriminatory (e.g. those with no vaccine access due allergy/autoimmune concerns), but it’s fine to discriminate against those people with regards to international travel.”

We’ve had yellow fever passports for years, without a major discrimination outcry.
The objections are going to come from people who want to holiday in the Summer but won’t have been vaccinated in time, along with cries of “what about the children”.
- Dominic says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 09:31
  
  Completely agree – ludicrous that people are against a vaccine ‘passport’ (or, perhaps more accurately, certificate).
  
  If I need a certificate to travel on a plane, I’ll gladly have one – on the understanding that everyone on the flight is also mandated to have one.
- Travel Strong says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 09:47
  
  If the ‘passport’ is also given to those that *cannot* have the vaccine, that should close the loop on the valid discrimination concerns. It’s easy to dismiss those folk, but I think you would feel differently if it affected your husband/wife.
  - Andrew says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 09:59
    
    Surely that would just be a certificate to day they cannot be vaccinated?
    
    It would still be up to the relevant country ‘s (and insurer’s) risk appetite.
- Dayle says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 10:28
  
  You can’t compare Covid 19 (99% survival) (1/3rd don’t know they have it) vs Yellow Fever (up to 50% death rate) in the same way, two very different viruses
  - marcw says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 10:56
    
    And Yellow Fever is a regional/endemic disease. COVID-19 is a global disease, aka pandemic.
    - Dayle says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 11:06
      
      “Pandemic” which 80% experience a mild cold as symptoms. I know which one I’d rather have.. wait… probably had
      
      1/3rd carriers don’t have any symptoms of Covid 19 and if you’re under 40, 99.95% chance of surviving it
  - Callum says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 11:43
    
    Firstly, someone who lies and grossly misrepresents statistics to try and boost their argument loses all credibility. The death rate from yellow fever is in the region of 5% – not a million miles away from Covid (which most countries are reporting is around 2%+, not 1% – we’ll obviously have to wait and see). Survival also doesn’t usually cause any long term affects, Covid very clearly does. Not that anything of this is particularly relevant.
    
    Secondly, as alluded to before, there is a very different reason to control Covid. Yellow fever is not particularly contagious – it doesn’t normally spread person to person. Vaccinations are required for the protection of the individual. Covid is highly contagious and causes enormous, costly damage to the economy and entire way of life of entire societies.
    
    No matter how often your ilk bangs on about “just let the 1% die, they’re old and sick anyway”, that’s clearly not going to happen. Countries therefore have a very legitimate reason for attempting to keep Covid out.
    
    While you keep framing this as people saying “Covid is just like Yellow Fever”, that’s utter rubbish. We are merely pointing out that there is a precedent for controlling international travel based on viral immunity.
- TGLoyalty says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 11:11
  
  Why do people keep talking about yellow fever
  
  These are completely different circumstances and two completely different outcomes from catching one vs the other for both yourself and the globe.
  - Callum says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 11:29
    
    Rather obviously because it’s a viral disease that has caused international travel restrictions to be implemented – just like with Covid…
    
    No one has made any suggestion that the diseases are comparatively severe in nature…
    - TGLoyalty says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 11:37
      
      Do you understand why yellow fever jabs are required in high risk countries? and why other countries require it from high risk countries?
      
      completely different circumstance to COVID19 – which is endemic in countries covering the vast majority of the population
      
      both being a virus is not a reason to compare them
      - Callum says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 12:57
        
        I do indeed, hence why I just explained the difference…
        
        I feel like I’ve explained this point a million times, but no-one is comparing them. They are comparing the INFRASTRUCTURE behind the concept of controlling international travel for viral reasons.
        
        Feel free to keep whining about how tough things are and how you’d rather continue to allow thousands to die instead of controlling international movement (while I’m completely aware of my hypocrisy given my lack of interest in preventing flu deaths in previous years with similar restrictions!), but the actual concept (again: not the diseases themselves) is directly comparable.
      - TGLoyalty says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:18
        
        Infrastructure behind it?
        
        How many yellow fever vaccination “passports” are handed out in the UK a year?
        
        You have your yellow slip “for life” rather than a new one every year when new strains that evade the neutralising effect of the current batch of vaccines appear
      - James says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:31
        
        You’ve list this one TGL, just give it up. One of you knows what they’re talking about here, the other thinks they do from reading agenda-driven newspaper articles and comments from Facebook et al.
        PS, the latter is you.
  - whiskerxx says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 14:29
    
    Why do people keep talking about covid FFS
KP says:

10 Feb10 February 09:24

I’m keen to have an answer on this too. I’m on the same boat but it’s not a new build. Any way to pay stamp duty land tax and get points?
- Anna says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 10:03
  
  It depends how long you have but in terms of saving a deposit a good way would be to fund ernie in a relevant manner and use the savings.
  - Genghis says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 10:14
    
    Better keeping the cash in a LISA if first time buyer and buying for less than £450k, is it? Your mortgage provider usually pays for conveyancing (solicitor). I recommend going through a mortgage broker as they do a lot of the grunt work. I can recommend one offline (follow me on genghis1232 on Twitter). As for points earning, no specific recommendations, sorry.
    - Nick says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 12:36
      
      Mortgage broker depends how complex your situation is. I bought my flat a few years ago and did it all myself – M S E is great for background – but my situation was as simple as it could be (newbuild so no chain, decent deposit) and I walked straight into a super deal. Would do exactly the same again in the same circumstances (but equally wouldn’t hesitate to use a broker if it were more complicated).
      
      Sadly very few miles and points opportunities but my tip is to make sure you’ve got the best spend cards for what you expect to be initial outgoings (ikea will be great for hitting spend targets, for example, but have a 0% BT card lined up to then defer the weight for 12 months).
      
      Also think outside the points arena… e.g. if you don’t currently pay utility bills, your new house will be a good way to create multiple DDs to capitalise on multiple bank switch bribes simultaneously (I think I did 3 at once).
    - 747_Brat says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 15:34
      
      Thanks @Nick & @Genghis for the advice. Cheers.
- Alex D says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 10:15
  
  Look at yesterday’s thread, I think someone mentioned paying their stamp via CC. If your limit isn’t high enough, call provider and ask for one time increase and they’ll often do it if you prove you have funds on account etc
Colin MacKinnon says:

10 Feb10 February 09:27

I am getting very negative about just how many airlines are going to survive, especially short-haul.

Jet2 have grounded their fleet until April.

The Scottish government have said that there were 1600 international arrivals in Scotland in the last week of January, just 760 in the first week of February. That’s not even one full 737 a day!

Airport owner AGS said they had only two international flights into Glasgow and Aberdeen airports – both into ABN from Norway with the oil industry.

Even Grant Shapps said there are just 1300 people a week arriving from Red List countries into the UK – that’s the equivalent about one 737 a day from Portugal!

It is all very scary – no wonder we have a local out-of-work pilot who has set up a rum company (Old Mother Hunt) !
- Rob says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 09:31
  
  You should see my LinkedIn feed. Pilots aren’t really qualified to do anything else. The number who are now truck drivers or Ocado drivers is scary.
  - Craig says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 09:51
    
    We have lots of transferable skills Rob! But trying to retain some sort of recency during all this is very difficult. Some airlines will survive into next year but with every passing month the flight training burden increases, not everything can be done in the simulator,
    - Anna says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 10:02
      
      I thought pilots needed to be maths or computer science graduates or similar (apologies if I’m completely out of the ball park here!)? Those are some of the most sought after degrees in the world!
      - BP says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 10:18
        
        It must be extremely difficult going from being a well paid pilot to suddenly having to take an unexpected massive drop in salary in order to start a new career afresh.
      - Russ says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 10:19
        
        No degree. Actually you used to be able to get a flying license AND a driving license by taxying a Lancaster bomber down the runway.
      - ken says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 13:46
        
        they need A levels, ideally with Maths or Physics..
        
        Either way, how useful do you think a computer science degree (or maths) is if you graduated in the early 1990’s or earlier and been a pilot ever since ?
      - Craig says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:40
        
        Russ if you can taxi a Lancaster you can drive anything. The handle on the yoke controls brake pressure, the rudder pedals directs this to each main wheel in proportion to deflection and if you overdo it you exhaust the air then you have almost no brakes left! It’s all very odd.
      - xcalx says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 15:52
        
        Not at all, I have a a relative who was a lift engineer took lessons and is now a pilot
    - Craig says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 10:33
      
      Nothing needed as far as qualifications except Maths and English, then either deep pockets, rich parent or sign 20 years of your life away in the military. As far as the salty drop is concerned, it’s not an issue if you’ve made contingency plans, unfortunately too many have stretched themselves financially and are really struggling.
      - Bill says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 17:36
        
        The father of a guy I used to work with is a BA LH pilot. He started out as a roofer. I don’t know what qualifications he got, if any. But it’s a cool story !
  - Russ says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 10:15
    
    Drove past Gatwick’s outdoor car parks this morning and they’re showing signs of serious disrepair to say the least; tarmac cracked, brambles growing through, hedges growing over and small saplings coming through the tarmac.
    - Aston100 says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 11:38
      
      Sounds like a scene from I am Legend.
  - ChrisC says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 12:34
    
    Former pilot came and painted my house.
    
    Made a great job of the landing.
    - Chris Heyes says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 12:44
      
      ChrisC I got it even if nobody else did lol
    - ankomonkey says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 12:46
      
      🙂
Mco says:

10 Feb10 February 09:49

Free date changes to these too? Doesn’t a fare difference apply though? Cheapest biz on that route is around £1000.
Darren says:

10 Feb10 February 10:13

As we trundle to the end of the tax year I’m thinking of S&S ISA, I’m sure there’ll be a nutmeg offer along soon, Vanguard look good, and I recall Genghis mentioned this in a thread a few months ago. The fees for Vanguard appear to be good, any other recommendations?
Also is there a points based route to achieve maximum returns (I realise the points angle is not important).
- Genghis says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 10:19
  
  iWeb if you won’t be trading much and in it for the long term, i.e. the now £100 set up fee sounds punchy and it is but will pay for itself over many years.
  - Doug M says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 10:23
    
    Agree, iWeb simple straight forward platform.
    - Genghis says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 10:38
      
      I’m sure someone will be along to recommend Trading 212 and with their referral link. Perhaps irrational but I just don’t trust these free trading products. At least with the traditional brokers, I pay for a service they provide.
      
      As the saying goes, if you don’t pay for a service, you’re the product? Freetrade in the US makes money from routing through certain brokers. Whether the others do in the UK, I don’t know. The Trading 212 UK entity financial statements on companies house don’t really say much. I’ve used Trading 212 a bit just to see what they’re like and the execution seems a bit slow – why is that? I’ve also posted before that the apps are just too easy to trade: long term wealth creation at times comes from intertia.
      
      Also – I don’t like the idea of my broker mixing a traditional investing business with CFDs, even though they supposedly back out the risk into the street, there’s still the counterparty risk. Yes – the underlying assets are supposed to be registered in my name on the omnibus account but do you trust Trading 212 to do the right thing?
      
      Thoughts welcome.
      - Doug M says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 11:26
        
        My strategy has long been to use ETFs. I like the low cost and I’m in it for the long haul, so not interested in trading costs being other than reasonable. I typically trade once maybe twice a year, so I’m happy to pay £15/each for that, if it’s £5 great, but what matters is that I have some faith in the money being there when I want it. I’m suspicious of free, it just doesn’t make sense to me.
        I read your thoughts on 212 when you posted previously, and silently thought +1.
        I would set an account up for the free share, but I can’t think why I’d trust them with money long term. Trading frequently just doesn’t make sense to me, that kind of trading always feels like eventually you’ll lose. I’d rather bet on horses or football, something I feel (probably wrongly) I know more about.
      - Callum says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 12:13
        
        I personally would trust them yes, given their history, profitability, FCA regulation and regular audits (though we all know none of that is foolproof!).
        
        There are also several layers of protection with (externally audited) segregated accounts, coverage from Interactive Brokers (the enormous brokerage where the shares are stored) and the FSCS covers up to £50k as I understand it.
        
        Personally I’ve used mine more for fun than for serious investing. I don’t know if I’d be confident to keep huge sums in there.
      - Grant says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:18
        
        I’m of the same mind. T212 is fine for gambling pocket money on penny stocks, but even that gets frustrating when orders take a while to get filled (I read they collect a number of individual orders so they can place fewer larger trades) and Dick Turpin seems to be managing the spreads.
        
        Maybe it would be fine for a low maintenance ISA if you top up every month and invest in ETFs where speed and timing is less of an issue.
      - mr_jetlag says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:28
        
        IMO not irrational at all – Freetrade, robinhood et al all make money selling your order flow to the market makers who then take the other side to their advantage. It was a big issue in the recent GameStop / meme stocks story. The lesson was: find a “real” broker who take their execution responsibilities seriously and properly route / collateralise trades.
      - mr_jetlag says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:29
        
        @Genghis IMO not irrational at all – Freetrade, robinhood et al all make money selling your order flow to the market makers who then take the other side to their advantage. It was a big issue in the recent GameStop / meme stocks story. The lesson was: find a “real” broker who take their execution responsibilities seriously and properly route / collateralise trades.
      - Jon G says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:35
        
        I moved from Nutmeg in early 2017 to Vanguard, then in Dec 2020 to Trading212. I also have a CFD account with IG as well for my ‘gambling’ trades. In terms of availability – both platforms crashed at the peak of the GME hysteria, so to be honest I don’t see any difference between the two. Vanguard aggregates your orders into their consolidated order at 3pm GMT daily, so that’s leaving you open to intra-day fluctuations. Not even going to talk about the limited number of products in Nutmeg/Vanguard, while IG/T212 allows you to select individual stocks. Oh and the S&P 500 ETF has the same expense ratio on Vanguard and on T212 ($VUSA) so no benefit from trading it on Vanguard itself.
        
        What I like about T212 is the ability to do direct debits into what they call a “Pie”. I choose a basket of tickets and can allocate % to each one. Then at biweekly (or weekly/monthly if you desire) intervals they are able to take regular payments out and invest it according to that split. The cherry on top is the ability to use debit cards (read: Bendy) for payments, which gives me avios on top of that spend (but this service has been removed for new accounts in 2021).
        
        AFAIK T212’s revenue comes from their CFDs wrappers, and they bring costs down by aggregating trades into one larger transaction (broker-side, on the consumer side this is reflected immediately). Of course you lose the ability to capitalise on split-second price changes (i.e. 0.1s) but if your goal is long term wealth accumulation then the time/price (within 4-5 seconds) at which your order executes should be immaterial. They are regulated by the FCA so no difference from other brokers in that regard.
        
        Hope that’s helpful.
      - Anuj says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 18:23
        
        I saw a post by trading212 on their forum. They’re claiming they are now fully profitable. I think it said they are now profitable without having to cross subsidise the share business with the CFD business. I’m not sure I believe them because they don’t charge any fees. They could be making money from the spread however. And with so many people now downloading the app to trade that could really add up per customer.
      - Lyn says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 19:16
        
        Genghis, this sounds very sensible. I am sceptical of free trades as well. The recent Robinhood fiasco in the US also highlights the question of adequate capitalisation in an emergency.
- Doug M says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 10:21
  
  You have to decide whether you intend to invest in funds or actual shares to know who is cheap. Of course things like Investment Trusts and ETFs are funds traded as shares. The points angle is trivial compared to a 10 year investment decision.
  - JDB says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 11:56
    
    There are enormous differences between Investment Trusts and ETFs as referred to above and each is different again from unit trusts/OEICs. Anyone contemplating investing in any these needs to be clear about the respective products and how they work in real life as well as the costs (including hidden costs) etc. or take advice.
    - Doug M says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 14:35
      
      But in terms of the cost of holding these pooled investments in an ISA, ETFs and ITs operate like shares. That was my point.
  - Darren says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 13:22
    
    The Vanguard Life Strategy Fund is appealing as it is straightforward for a beginner. Just choose the risk required.
- Neil says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 11:15
  
  There is a useful broker comparison on the Monevator site that includes a “good for” against each broker but you need to decide what sort of investor you are – will you invest often and want access to research tools or say US based shares or do you just want something simple e.g. Vanguard who have a limited set of their own products. Are you going to transfer in from another broker etc.
  I would ignore the points angle until you have some sort of short list of possible brokers as the fees from some funds / brokers will quickly overtake any points they are willing to give you or allow you to collect
  If you want to trade with the kool kids then I suggest reddit
  - Darren says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 13:36
    
    I think I’ll pass on reddit.
    
    It will be first time not a transfer in, I have read a few comparisons of funds which I think will be my preference. I’ll check out Monevator, thanks.
    - Anuj says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 18:24
      
      U.K. personal finance is very helpful and doesn’t have any of the wsb types. I.e they recommend vanguard etc.
- BuildBackBetter says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 12:01
  
  compare fund platforms . com
  First, plan what you are going to invest in, then check the charges.
  - Darren says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 13:14
    
    I have a lump of cash, which will be coming to me in a couple of chunks. I’ll be using this to overpay a mortgage which is a fixed rate so will ne
    - Darren says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 13:16
      
      Need access.
      - Genghis says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:15
        
        My challenge to this is should you be really be investing, but instead saving? Investing is for the long term, say 10 years+. What you don’t want to do is put money into a product which then tanks and you then need to withdraw to pay a liability. Even going for a heavy bond component carries some risk. Some food for thought anyway.
      - Darren says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:31
        
        Thank you, that’s exactly what I need to hear. The overpayment chunks will be once a year and I have other options for this, but yes I see your point.
- ken says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 13:56
  
  +1 Genghis says.
  
  Try looking it from the other way round.
  
  What do you want to invest in within the ISA should be the first decision, how frequently you might trade (ideally very infrequently) then what platform.
  
  Points shouldn’t come in to it.
  
  If you are happy to pay in fees & lower returns with Nutmeg against optimal choices for the sake of some points (and perhaps an easy way of investing that requires little effort), at least recognise it.
KS says:

10 Feb10 February 11:02

Regarding Hyatt’s “bonus journeys”, am I right in understanding that bonus nights will also trigger applicable milestone rewards?
- TGLoyalty says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 11:11
  
  Yes.
  - KS says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 12:30
    
    Thanks!
IF1 says:

10 Feb10 February 11:26

Hi all,

Retailer is refusing to refund after I declined to pay customs charges (as advised by them) and now the parcel is stuck in some DPD hub in the UK citing missing paperwork, I am really tempted to just file a chargeback with Amex now, is this the best course of action?
- Doug M says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 11:28
  
  When did you order, and where from?
  - IF1 says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 14:51
    
    I ordered something from Sandro. DPD got in touch in advance to pay for customs, the parcel has always been within their network there was no delivery attempted. Sandro have said it can take up to a month for the parcel to be returned to their warehouse before they can even consider a refund so will just wait, I’ve already waited nearly 4 weeks.
- blenz101 says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 11:38
  
  Did DPD get the item to your door and then you sent it away again when you realised that you were due to pay the custom? The payment of duty have nothing to do with the retailer at all so what they say isn’t relevant.
  
  The chargeback is going to be sucessful only if the retailer failed to fulfil their contract. I strongly suspect that given that they did deliver but you in effect handed the goods to DPD when you refused to pay the custom that neither Amex or the retailer would be liable.
  - TGLoyalty says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 11:59
    
    unless there is written proof they asked the OP to decline the delivery (OP says they said to do this)
    - blenz101 says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 12:43
      
      The sender would have had no idea what, if any, customs charges were going to be assesed. Obligation will always lie with the importer to pay these charges.
      
      DPD would have contacted the OP in advance of delivery to collect the duty. Safe to assume at this point to OP contacted the seller and which is where the ‘advice’ not to pay what was due came from.
      
      Should be an open and shut case for the retailer if a dispute is raised against them that they can submit evidence that the package remains with the courier as the buyer is refusing to pay the customs charge.
      - TGLoyalty says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 12:45
        
        I disagree if the OP contacted the seller and said “you didn’t mention this would be shipped from outside the UK and therefore subject to duty” and they said “yeah fair enough refuse delivery”
        
        Which is exactly how it sounds then it’s not an open and shut case for the retailer.
    - blenz101 says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 12:53
      
      @TGLoyalty I think we all know when we are purchasing goods from abroad. In any event the terms of sale will always include something like “The recipient of the order will be responsible for any import duties or taxes charged by the recipient’s country and carrier-related fees. These additional charges will be collected from the recipient by our shipping carrier at the time of delivery”.
      
      They will just be able to quote that back. Open and shut.
      - TGLoyalty says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 13:12
        
        You’re assuming OP knew it was coming from abroad. It’s not always clear.
      - Doug M says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:27
        
        This is why I asked when and where, without that info every one is just guessing, or answering what may not be the circumstances.
        There was a case highlighted in news recently of person in Ireland ordering from gap.eu and goods despatched from the UK, at face value that’s Gap’s problem not the customer.
      - IF1 says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 15:13
        
        I ordered from UK website, prices included all the related fees, it was just fulfilled from EU warehouse hence the issue
      - TGLoyalty says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 15:51
        
        I would chargeback. I wouldn’t have waited 4 weeks to be honest if its clearly with DPD still then its the retailers problem to get it back.
Colin MacKinnon says:

10 Feb10 February 11:38

For Anna, wondering yesterday about the article on Human Rights for hotel quarantining:, here it is on my google docs:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MIUqjrTBimR4asNLmz0ilmecsrnynoHSziBml8KN8FQ/edit?usp=sharing
- Anna says:
  
  10 Feb10 February 12:22
  
  Thanks Colin, I will have a proper read later. I still have a geeky residual interest in the technicalities of these things!
  - Anna says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 12:35
    
    Though on a quick scan through it’s exactly what I was thinking, including the reference to Enhorn v Sweden!
  - Colin MacKinnon says:
    
    10 Feb10 February 13:10
    
    Me too! I love technicalities, and seeing just what is actually allowed. I even read the statutory instruments!
    
    I was a law student at Old College in Edinburgh in 1979 and got bottom marks in Constitutional Law for daring to suggest that the UK parliament was still supreme because because “it could always vote to leave the EEC”.
    
    I was told to be more realistic!
    
    (Of course, we had only joined the EEC in 1973, had a new-fangled referendum in 1975 to stay in, and had a Scottish devolution referendum in 1978 – so this was a turbulent time for constitutional law)
    - Colin MacKinnon says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 13:18
      
      And, of course, if the UK was sovereign enough to be able to leave the EU, is Scotland sovereign enough to repeal the Act of Union of 1707?
      
      I believe the Scottish parliament only went into recess, rather than dissolve itself! Mind you, they’ll all be dead by now! (Hence my interest being geeky!)
      - ChrisC says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 14:41
        
        Though that recess ended in May 1999 (if you belive in the recess model rather than the abolition of the Scottish and English Parliments model)
      - Anna says:
        
        10 Feb10 February 15:45
        
        I love Scottish history, especially the 16th century so am used to envisaging Scotland as an independent country (though there was a LOT of collaborating with the English by Scottish nobility trying to consolidate their power bases!). I’m a bit hazy about the Act of Union but it does sound as though it was all done rather under-handedly. But from 1603 Britain was ruled by the Stuarts and their descendants anyway so in theory Scotland won that one!
    - Chris K says:
      
      10 Feb10 February 14:44
      
      It’s interesting that you were considered ‘wrong’ so early in the days of our membership. I (a humble chemistry graduate / lowly administrator) thought that the primacy of EU (EC) Law wasn’t really tested until much later on in the Factortame case where UK Law was struck down because it contradicted Community Law.