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The HfP chat thread – Sunday 20th December

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We have decided to run this daily chat thread on Head for Points during the coronavirus outbreak.

Historically, the daily ‘Bits’ articles were the de facto repository for random comments and questions.  With the news flow being lighter, we are running fewer ‘Bits’ articles.

The comments under this article are where you should post questions about travel and, indeed, anything else on your mind.  At this tricky time, and given that many of you are at home, we want the HfP community to have a place to chat.

Please only comment under the main articles on the site if your comment is directly related to the topic of the article.  This has long-term benefits as it keeps the commentary relevant for people who read those articles in the future.

Old chat threads are hidden from the HfP home page.  If you want to look for something in an old thread, click here.  This brings up all the articles in our ‘General’ category which includes the chat threads.

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General

Comments (229)

This article is closed to new posts. Discussion continues in the HfP Forums.

  • Baji Nahid says:
    20 Dec20 December 02:26

    Netherlands has banned UK air travel due to the new strain.

    • Josh says:
      20 Dec20 December 03:33

      Currently until 1 Jan at the latest

      • Cat says:
        20 Dec20 December 03:49

        Hey, Josh, are you planning to apologise to me at all? I’ve talked about my miscarriages and infertility a couple of times recently here, publicly, because I think that makes it easier for people who go through it, to know that it happens an awful lot (one in four pregnancies, sadly).

        I talked about my miscarriages this evening, and your response was to refer to me as “frigid”. I’m certain you know that doesn’t just mean cold, it’s more commonly used to describe a woman who avoids, or doesn’t enjoy sex, and it’s a *really, really hideous* thing to say to somebody who’s gone through what I’ve gone through.

        This kind of misogyny may be acceptable in your world, but while I am aware men outnumber women in this forum massively, I think you’re probably onto a loser with this one, as I imagine there are enough men on this forum who have suffered the heartbreak of infertility and miscarriage themselves too.

        • James says:
          20 Dec20 December 04:45

          Cat, I wouldn’t bother with Josh. He’s a commenter/troll who who only comes out to sneer and be contrary. If he was man enough to apologise, it would be petty worthless in my view.

        • Number9 says:
          20 Dec20 December 05:57

          Cat please don’t let this person upset you, I
          Know easier said than done but they aren’t worth it. The irony is men might outnumber woman on this forum but us woman half give a lot of help time and time again to said men and woman. Normally repeating ourselves from the previous day as people are inherently lazy and can’t be arsed to look up the info themselves.
          Don’t let an idiot ruin your enjoyment of using this site.
          They must have a very sad life if they think being so flippant, crass and insensitive over you losing your babies is the way to behave.

          • Cat says:
            20 Dec20 December 13:12

            I’m past letting him bother me, but I do think I’m owed an apology from him. He is a nasty piece of work, and he does seem to have an awful lot of unresolved anger towards women. One wonders where it stems from.
            Either way, in this day and age we should be able to participate in this forum, which is TBH a bit of an old boys club, without fear of that kind of rampant misogyny being thrown at us for daring to participate.

        • Chris Heyes says:
          20 Dec20 December 07:59

          Cat, just block him out, on a lighter note never suffered the heartbreak of a miscarriage, but I’m probably infertile (maybe lol) at 73 lol

          • Rob says:
            20 Dec20 December 08:08

            Unlikely. Our next door neighbour had a child at 69 with his 31 year old wife (who has a PhD from Imperial).

        • TOBIAS L says:
          20 Dec20 December 09:59

          Cat,

          I normally don’t post these types of messages because it should be a given that we are aware of the risks of the bile and acrimony to be found online. My usual stance is unfortunately it is a dog eat dog world here (and in life, really). Also, I tend to be quite ruthless with people who are selfish, Brexiters, radicals or just generally bad people – I don’t know you enough but think it shouldn’t matter for what I’m writing below.

          Don’t ever put yourself down or let yourself be affected by anything anyone tells you on a forum. Your decision to share that info was brave, and certainly reached a few people (including me) and I even committed one of your posts to an online notebook so that I can help myself contextualize the things life throws at me. Don’t feel the need to seek forgiveness or approval from anonymous posters (most likely embittered by their own shortcomings and not knowing/ unable to be happy or at ease with themselves).

          Someone once told me “learning to live is learning to let go”…let this one go and enjoy the things that make you happy this season.

          T

          • TOBIAS L says:
            20 Dec20 December 10:05

            Actually, considering the senseless, unwarranted and impending mayhem and doom, if you’re a Brexiteer please disregard all the positive advice above 🙂

          • Anna says:
            20 Dec20 December 10:20

            I’m impressed by just how judgemental you managed to be in an ostensibly supportive post, Toboas!

          • Bazza says:
            20 Dec20 December 12:27

            selfish – Brexiters. Now come on….that’s funny!

          • Cat says:
            20 Dec20 December 13:21

            Thanks Tobias L, I’m not letting it get to me, but (after 2 decades as a teacher), I firmly believe that the only way to deal with a nasty bully is to stand your ground and call them on what they’re doing.
            I could shrink away in shame, and stop participating in this forum, but I do actually enjoy being a part of the HfP community, and I don’t see why I should. If I let him get away with behaving like this towards me, he’ll just carry on doing it to other people.
            I don’t want any sort of forgiveness from him (what for?) nor do I care for his approval. I would quite like it if he just b*ggered off though.
            I’m a firm remainer, for the record, I love my passport that allows me to travel freely in Europe whenever I want and for as long as I want, and I’m devastated that that’s coming to an end (I say that without judgement on the people who voted for Brexit).

        • Josh says:
          20 Dec20 December 11:00

          I’m afraid Cat that I was not talking about you in that reply and i wasn’t replying to you. Regardless, I wasn’t aware of your personal problems and I certainly wasn’t aware of that meaning of that word.

          That phrase referred to the same one voiced by the Dowager Countess in Downton Abbey, but instead of being a plagiarist, I simply changed “cold” for a word of the same meaning.

          Don’t ascribe malice for ignorance.

          • James says:
            20 Dec20 December 12:21

            I’m afraid Josh, that you’re just making it up – utterly incapable of apologising or even acknowledging someone’s hurt. Pretty sad really.

          • Cat says:
            20 Dec20 December 13:04

            You were replying to my post where I talked about why I hadn’t appreciated your rudeness earlier. I talked about my brother who had died and my miscarriages in that post. You *replied to that post*. How could you possibly not know. Can’t you read? What moral high ground were you referring to then?

            There are many synonyms for cold, you just had to choose the one that has all sorts of dreadful, misogynistic connotations (and as if an unpleasant, twisted little troll like you doesn’t know the meaning of that word).

            The thing to do here is to be man enough to admit what you’ve done and apologise. Anything less than that is just utter cowardice. Grow up Josh.

      • James says:
        20 Dec20 December 04:47

        You mean the earliest, Josh

      • Doug M says:
        20 Dec20 December 12:39

        Personal pain seems to have replaced what you can do with a Curve or Revolut card the last two days. My only thought on it is if you care about what ‘Internet Randoms’ think of you, then don’t post deeply personal information in such a public forum. Strange times, lock down fever really biting.

        • Cat says:
          20 Dec20 December 13:28

          This forum has always been quite a close knit community. Over the years, a number of people have shared personal details of their lives (for any number of reasons – disaster striking while abroad, family emergencies and needing to drop everything and fly half way round the world to be with them…) when they’ve needed support, and our little community has rallied around with support and advice. When people are not only unsupportive, but just senselessly mean, that is not the fault of the poster, it’s the fault of the bully.

          • Aston100 says:
            20 Dec20 December 13:51

            Cat, internet anonymity + an audience = a recipe for problems, especially on a site like this where there isn’t even a need to register to make comments.
            I really wouldn’t share personal issues on sites which are so poorly user-managed.

        • Small Shop says:
          20 Dec20 December 14:01

          Well said

  • Luke says:
    20 Dec20 December 04:44

    @Cat. Thx for posting those heartfelt words. Yep, as a bloke/man’s man/alpha male and all the other BS descriptions given, I found it nigh-on impossible to voice my sheer pain and loss I (and the former ‘we’) experienced – now some 20+ years ago, let alone get ‘help’; can’t thank you enough for raising the issue of miscarriage here; may bring out the odd uninitiated comment, but without brave ppl like you many would be nonethewiser. For me, not a day goes by…

    • Nick says:
      20 Dec20 December 12:25

      @Cat, to the regulars here you’re one of the strongest, bravest, friendliest and helpful people around. Your words touch us, your actions help us, and your attitude is an inspiration.

      It’s the internet, there’ll always be trolls. Stand above them, they’re not worth it. From your friends, we stand with you, you are safe here.

      • Cat says:
        20 Dec20 December 13:41

        Thanks Nick, that’s very sweet of you to say. Your support really is gratefully appreciated. X

        • Polly says:
          20 Dec20 December 23:01

          Cat
          As l said similar in last nights posting…we really do appreciate you on the forum, and some people are not worthy of a reply or even acknowledging. So onwards we go to a more positive 2021..speak soon x

    • Cat says:
      20 Dec20 December 13:38

      Yes, my OH is the same way. He doesn’t talk about it at all, and getting ‘help’ was never going to happen for him either.
      When we found out about the Tier 4 arrangements he was every bit as devastated as me – my nieces are the closest thing he has to children too, and he was looking forward to having them here.
      Honestly, for those of us (too many of us) who have been through this, being able to talk about it really helps. The culture of silence and shame around this issue is just not helpful.
      Thank you for your brave and supportive comment too Luke, I do appreciate it.

      • Anna says:
        20 Dec20 December 14:03

        Cat, I had a miscarriage at 9 weeks before I was lucky enough to have my sweet, healthy boy and even at that stage it’s shocking how real that loss is of a life you created, It stays with you forever like a little ghost in the background so I imagine this is how things are for you but magnified over and over. From what I’ve come to know of you, you haven’t let this stop you dedicating yourself to making a difference to so many people with your running and teaching, you’re an inspiration!

        • Cat says:
          20 Dec20 December 14:40

          Thanks for sharing that Anna, it really isn’t easy to talk about so I really appreciate that.

          It never really goes away, does it? The babies you lose stay with you, even if you never had the chance to know them.

          I think it makes you appreciate the children you do have (or in my case, my nieces) all the more because of it.

          Hug your boy for me (if he’ll let you). X

          • Nick says:
            20 Dec20 December 20:47

            Cat I have just seen the above exchanges. Its hard not to respond, but by doing so you are giving that oxygen thief more than a nano second of your time, which he doesnt deserve.
            Stand proud in what you have written, as for him, just gives the male species a bad name

          • Cat says:
            20 Dec20 December 20:51

            Thanks Nick, that’s appreciated. You’re right, and I’ll try to avoid him in future, as best I can. X

  • Colin MacKinnon says:
    20 Dec20 December 06:05

    Ryanair from Edinburgh to Lanzarote this morning just half full.
    Check in a bit chaotic, half the baggage machines broken and a lot of people being told their Amsterdam flight had been cancelled.
    Edinburgh Airport efficiency – we had the furthest away gate, and then got bussed to the plane!

    • Number9 says:
      20 Dec20 December 06:26

      Have a great trip Colin.

      • Colin MacKinnon says:
        20 Dec20 December 11:46

        Thanks. Arrived half an hour early. Super quick passport check, a bit of milling around with people not sure if they had to show Spanish QR code or Covid certificate. And then five min wait for bags. Now having a cuppa in the sun.

  • JamesH says:
    20 Dec20 December 06:36

    To everyone booked to go on holiday these next few days… I genuinely hope you still go and have the best time. Don’t feel like you need the go-ahead from strangers (by name and nature, it seems) on HFP. Consult with family if you need to. They won’t judge like anonymous trolls. Stay safe – as you always have – and look forward to talking Hilton points and avios in the NY!

    • JamesH says:
      20 Dec20 December 06:41

      Admin – please can we have a 5 day bubble on HFP where the comments sections are about collecting points, nice hotels, good Boxing Day deals and perhaps the odd credit card offer? Hey, let’s even have a book review. It’s turning into PMQs on here (tbh I reckon Hancock is even responding under an alias to some people’s comments) and I’m not sure I can take it much longer lol. My morning coffee and HFP catch up needs a bit of positivity and niceness this Xmas.

      • Number9 says:
        20 Dec20 December 06:47

        But how many people are you allowing in that bubble James? I’d like a bubble on stupid nicknames beardy, seagulls, bendy or I could just skip posts like I do now.
        I really miss Lego, printer ink days. It was a kinder gentler world.

      • Small Shop says:
        20 Dec20 December 10:41

        What we really need is a tweak of the comments UI to make nesting more obvious and allow easily collapsing a whole chain of messages when it starts with someone’s opinion or some stupid codenames for MS activities that the card issuers already know all about.

        The comments layout regularly trips people up and they don’t reply to the right comment, so even trying to scroll by all the spouting of opinion is becoming tedious. The reply to comment link needs to be shifted left and there should be a clearer divider or colour change for a top level comment.

        HfP comments used to be a rich mine of points and miles tips and info. The volume of opinions and politics is making it much less worth the effort of trawling through.

        You’ll never stop people spouting their opinion and being offended when someone disagrees, but some UI tweaks would make it less tiresome to filter past it.

        Just my opinion. But if you disagree with me I’ll demand an apology and go on about it for 6 more pages.

        (Someone will think I was being serious about that last part)

        • Small Shop says:
          20 Dec20 December 10:46

          Specifically, the nesting of the first reply, and differentiation when there are two or more top level comments in sequence, might be improved. A clearer distinction is needed for the “reply to comment” versus “new comment” especially for the last comment on the page. A “collapse thread” button would be easier (for some, maybe) than scrolling to find the next top level comment.

        • RussellH says:
          20 Dec20 December 11:08

          I would love to see some clearer indications of the various levels of posting. Nesting just does not seem to work properly – the odd comment is indented, but the next one moves left again.
          Is this a failing of the software?
          And might I offer an alternative solution, though again, I have no idea if the software can cope. [The suggestion is taken from e-mail software.]
          Top level comment – black text.
          Second level comment – blue text.
          Third level comment – green text.
          Fourth level comment – purple text.
          Fifth level comment – dark blue text.

          If the software behind this site cannot do that, then maybe it could do something similar with the background colours instead, though they would have to be light enough that the readability of the black text was not compromised.

          • Small Shop says:
            20 Dec20 December 11:26

            Colours are tricky because of accessibility, hence the use of just two easily distinguished shades – grey and white. Designers usually shy away from more than a few key colours and prefer to use structural elements. For example, horizontal dividers could be used to help separate and identify the top level comment.

            I would have chosen to use the grey background on the top level comment rather than the replies, as it is bolder and clearer and with a much smaller number of top level comments versus replies it would draw the eye much more easily. Similarly, moving the reply link to the left instead of the right would put it in the sight line more noticeably, especially for the last comment on the page.

            But I’m more of a back end dev than a UX designer. And I only really want an easier way to quickly skip to the next top level comment whereas the actual designer also has to address page width and mobile and paging and fitting the overall site colour scheme and so on.

          • Mouse says:
            20 Dec20 December 17:53

            I think family tree style lines to make the nesting relationship clear would help a lot

        • Lady London says:
          20 Dec20 December 12:02

          Have you noticed the nastiness always spikes upwards as soon as more restrictions, tighter lockdowns etc., are announced?

          Reminds me of school science lessons where we were told lock rats up in a cage and they’ll eat each other

          • Doug M says:
            20 Dec20 December 12:46

            Absolutely. More time on our hands, less interaction with friends and general social circles, less personal interaction reduces opinion feedback, so less balance in written opinions and more time to fester and focus on the slightest perceived slight or insult.
            The Dark Side is winning us over…….

          • Cat says:
            20 Dec20 December 13:50

            Yes, exactly this Lady London.
            Restrict the freedom to travel of travel fanatics, and they eat each other!

          • Anna says:
            20 Dec20 December 14:07

            Just read “Lord of the Flies” to see what happens when people are trapped on an island … !

          • Cat says:
            20 Dec20 December 14:30

            @Anna,when I started teaching in an all boys school, after a 7 year stint teaching in an all girls school, I came home with a new tale of horror every day, and couldn’t understand why OH was unfazed by these stories. 2 weeks into term he declared that he would no longer be talking to me about the behaviour of theboys at school, until I had read “Lord of the Flies”. Then I would understand.
            I’ll admit, it did give me some perspective, although after two years of eavesdropping on the low level muttering of my classes, I feel that William Golding may have skimped on the onanistic behaviour.

          • The Savage Squirrel says:
            20 Dec20 December 15:47

            Reading this forum really is an education. I feel quite ignorant as I just had to look up “onanistic”. I will endeavour to use it in a sentence this week, although possibly not when talking to my mother-in-law :).

          • Cat says:
            20 Dec20 December 15:52

            😂🤣

        • Aston100 says:
          20 Dec20 December 13:10

          Surely the solution to all these comment/reply formatting issues is to just purchase and use actual forum software? That would also sort out so many other issues, such as making it a little bit harder for random trolling; searching for keywords and topics; allowing sticky FAQs etc etc
          I am unsure why this was not implemented as part of the recent site overhaul.

          • Doug M says:
            20 Dec20 December 13:31

            I’m guessing that HfP are not totally on-board with the forum idea. Presumably it changes how the advertising revenue works versus existing format. Also, what would it offer over and above FT, which is a much more organised and mature site for forums specific to a widespread variety of travel topics. Don’t forget that Rob has previously said the people that comment don’t represent the main recipients of the daily emails. So maybe there’s more to it than buy and implement forum software.

          • Rob says:
            20 Dec20 December 13:54

            We’re onboard but there is still a lot of work going on tied to the relaunch. Most of the 11,000 existing articles need to be changed in some way and we are looking at another couple of months to work through this. When we are fully happy with what we have, we will do new stuff.

            If it ends up being Easter we can retire the chat threads at the same time as the core vaccination programme ends.

          • Crafty says:
            20 Dec20 December 22:13

            You don’t have to purchase it, it’s free.

          • Polly says:
            20 Dec20 December 23:05

            Savage squirrel, love that comment! Not trying to impress the MIL then???

    • BuildTheWall says:
      20 Dec20 December 07:05

      Yes, let’s throw caution to the wind and blame the government for not enforcing. Who cares about COVID or the death rates.

      • BuildTheWall says:
        20 Dec20 December 07:07

        Those who are sacrificing their holidays and chances to meet loved ones must be plain stupid.

      • Number9 says:
        20 Dec20 December 07:17

        Build the wall you are funny and I bet you don’t even realise it.

      • mvcvz says:
        20 Dec20 December 09:56

        You mean the death rates which are exactly the same as any other year?

        • Josh says:
          20 Dec20 December 11:04

          And how the occurrence of conventional flu is almost non-existant now? It is intriguing

          • Small Shop says:
            20 Dec20 December 11:29

            Absolutely. It’s fascinating that rates of a communicable disease seem to fall when people spend more time at home by themselves. Someone should do some research on that.

          • Jayne says:
            20 Dec20 December 12:25

            Liars gonna lie, Josh.

        • Nick_C says:
          20 Dec20 December 11:50

          Absolute rubbish.

          Are you trying to deliberately mislead people in order to support a prejudiced position or are you simply ignorant of the facts?

          “‘With more than 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales since the Covid-19 pandemic began, the death statistics for this year are truly sobering. If current trends continue, the total excess death toll for 2020 could exceed 80,000”

          https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/press/press-releases/excess-deaths-ons-data-kings-fund-response

          • Nick_C says:
            20 Dec20 December 11:51

            That was in response to “You mean the death rates which are exactly the same as any other year?”

        • Aston100 says:
          20 Dec20 December 13:14

          “You mean the death rates which are exactly the same as any other year?”
          Are you saying something along the lines of those people would have died anyway, maybe from a car accident or something rather than the current cause of death/covid?

          • Rob says:
            20 Dec20 December 14:01

            As the average age of Covid death (82) is higher than the average UK death age then yes.

            My old buy out shop owned Dignity at one point and I am well versed in the fluctuations in the death rate due to normal flu. The bottom line is that a good year is followed by a bad year as it just brings forward death slightly.

            Oddly it is bad for undertakers who prefer a stable death rate. The cost of casual staff and overtime if there is a death peak one year eats into profits.

          • Nick_C says:
            20 Dec20 December 15:18

            We will have around 80,000 excess deaths this year. People who would normally have died this year.

            That is combination of various factors. There will have been fewer fatalities from road traffic accidents during the first lockdown. Fewer people will die from winter flu as “hands, face, space” protects against it. A lot of people have died as a direct result of covid. Many people will have died as an indirect result – delays in cancer diagnosis and treatment for example.

            But yes, the additional people who have died this year would have died anyway. As will you and I. Just not this year. Insh’allah.

          • Nick_C says:
            20 Dec20 December 15:20

            Correction – people who would NOT normally have died this year …

  • Mouse says:
    20 Dec20 December 07:15

    New covid laws now published:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1611/pdfs/uksi_20201611_en.pdf

  • stevenhp1987 says:
    20 Dec20 December 07:28

    T5 Gold Wing still open despite new London T5 restrictions.

    Not too busy in here.

    • TGLoyalty says:
      20 Dec20 December 08:23

      T4 restrictions have no impact on airport operations. The only impact would be if a significant proportion live in T4 areas.

  • Jessiefan says:
    20 Dec20 December 07:50

    I remember the movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers, where aliens take over the bodies of officials. Seems like that could be a good theory to explain what’s happening, disrupting human civilisation to take over the planet. Heads of state that have caught the ‘virus’ have recovered quite nicely. We’re all doomed, doomed I say. (pte Fraser inspired that last bit)

    • Number9 says:
      20 Dec20 December 08:01

      Don’t even have to go that far back, there was an episode of Star Trek next generation where the leaders of star fleet were taken over by alien life form, but our hero Riker saw them off.

      • RussellH says:
        20 Dec20 December 10:49

        And more recently than that, though still some dozen years past, the Slitheen took over the UK Government in Dr. Who
        🙂

        • Number9 says:
          20 Dec20 December 11:06

          Would rather trust the Slitheen than the current shower of headless chickens in Westminster.
          At least they had a proper plan!

        • Lady London says:
          20 Dec20 December 12:06

          They did look awfully like the Conservative front bench of that time didn’t they.

    • Charlieface says:
      20 Dec20 December 09:15

      Sounds more C-3PO to me

  • JK says:
    20 Dec20 December 07:56

    Hey guys,

    We’re due to fly from ARN-MLE in April, on Qatar. Sadly, they’ve just changed the return flights, so we now have a near 12 hour delay in DOH, and also means I need to shuffle return flights from ARN-LHR.

    Under Qatar’s travel with confidence policy, anyone know what I might be able to do? I know I can cancel or move dates. The dream would be to change it to MLE-LHR – do you think they might consider that?

    Cheers,
    JK

    • Lady London says:
      20 Dec20 December 12:11

      call and ask.
      not the same issues as changing to a UK airport on the outbound would be as APD applies outwardd not arrivals.

      So if you ask thrm nicely they might do.

    • Mouse says:
      20 Dec20 December 19:05

      The Oryx airside hotel in the terminal is very pleasant – you might convince them to give you a room there for the duration of the layover

      • Polly says:
        20 Dec20 December 23:13

        Think they would def agree a room as they made the change. We found it a very pleasant stay.

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