UK Government to ban international travel and domestic hotel stays ‘except for work’

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• abc says:

  31 Oct31 October 21:33

  “This could be troublesome for anyone who is not allowed to leave the UK but is also not allowed to stay in a hotel ….” Surely people not living in England will be allowed to leave the country (?) And there will also probably be exceptions for hotels/other accommodation providers to allow people to stay in there that don’t currently have a place to live in the UK.

• ChrisD says:

  31 Oct31 October 21:34

  Unnecessary sensationalism in the headline here. It only applies to England and it’s not a “ban” it’s advice. The government can’t stop you leaving the country.

  • DV says:

    1 Nov1 November 08:21

    It doesn’t appear to be advice, and Parliament could legislate to stop UK citizens leaving the country. See below:

    “Overnight stays and holidays away from primary residences will not be allowed- including holidays in the UK and abroad. This includes staying in a second home, if you own one, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with. There are specific exceptions, for example if you need to stay away from home (including in a second home) for work purposes.”

    • Alex Sm says:

      1 Nov1 November 10:20

      This is really weird re second homes. Why?

      • Rob says:

        1 Nov1 November 10:36

        I think if you dig out the map of ‘virtually no covid cases’ and overlay that with a map of ‘places where people have 2nd homes’ you’d find an almost perfect correlation, that’s why. If everyone had a 2nd home in Birmingham I doubt anyone would care.

        • Alex Sm says:

          2 Nov2 November 21:04

          Yes, I know re Cornwall as visited in November. But sparsely populated areas will help break the contagion chains from big cities. To be honest, everyone who has second homes, should be encouraged to move there to ease pressure on big cities and reduce the R number

• Dunit says:

  31 Oct31 October 21:38

  Is it just ‘advice’, though? The official guidance (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november#travel) mentions things like “if legally permitted”. That sure doesn’t sound like advice.

  They also haven’t made clear what sort of exceptions apply. Like, are they going to stop a Canadian citizen from flying LHR-YYZ? Is that even allowed under international law?

  • abc says:

    31 Oct31 October 21:45

    The government doesn’t have a good reputation regarding following international law. (Though it seems pretty unlikely to me that they will prevent foreign citizens from leaving the country to go home.)

  • Joe says:

    31 Oct31 October 21:46

    Indeed – would they let me, a Britosh citizen return home to my residence in Switzerland?

    • abc says:

      31 Oct31 October 22:09

      Yes, according to the guidance, only holidays are not allowed.

    • DV says:

      1 Nov1 November 08:22

      Not after Thursday it would appear, unless for work.

      Overnight stays and holidays away from primary residences will not be allowed- including holidays in the UK and abroad. This includes staying in a second home, if you own one, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with. There are specific exceptions, for example if you need to stay away from home (including in a second home) for work purposes.

  • Andrew says:

    31 Oct31 October 21:57

    I think the spirit of the law is to stay home, not go on holiday, not go on mattress runs to get Diamond in 15 nights, not to go to The Langley to use your £400. Canadian citizens wanting to leave will of course be able to and I’m sure there will be limited checks and enforcement – but the spirit of the measures is to stay home and save lives.

    • Andy says:

      31 Oct31 October 22:24

      Absolutely spot on remarks and viewpoint!

      • AndyC says:

        1 Nov1 November 02:27

        +1!!

    • Tom says:

      31 Oct31 October 22:31

      1000x this ^^^

      Look at the bigger picture. Recognise the responsibilities we all have to each other. And the more we keep the virus down, the more likely we’ll be able to have some degree of normality again.

      • Cat says:

        31 Oct31 October 22:35

        Exactly this.

      • Dr Roger says:

        31 Oct31 October 22:56

        You’re talking rubbish. The virus will not abate during a lockdown. It didn’t in the first one and it will not in this one not in any further planned ones. The entire lockdown strategy is flawed and based on bad science and scare mongering

        • Char Char says:

          1 Nov1 November 07:49

          Yes exactly but people like these will gobble it up and be clapping every night like a good sheep

        • Mikeact says:

          1 Nov1 November 10:02

          Please explain ‘bad science’ .

        • Char Char says:

          1 Nov1 November 11:58

          Bad science = cherry picked

      • Chris says:

        1 Nov1 November 09:08

        Normality will return when we’ve all had it or we accept we might get it, just as we do with the flu now.
        These lockdowns are only delaying that normality, whilst killing lives for many other non-COVID reasons.

    • Alan says:

      31 Oct31 October 22:50

      Exactly this. I’ve had a couple of very pleasant staycations in Ayrshire and the Borders over the summer, last trip abroad was in Feb and only left Scotland for about 10 min when in the Borders 😂 Have been building up more and more points with credit card accrual and no stays, here’s hoping for 2nd half of 2021…

    • Simon Barlow says:

      1 Nov1 November 08:57

      +1

• James says:

  31 Oct31 October 22:16

  The attitude on here is some of the reason we’re in this mess. “It’s just advice, no one can stop me” – people thinking they’re invincible from covid. Just stay home until things are better.

  • Number9 says:

    31 Oct31 October 22:40

    You must be a public sector worker.

    • James E says:

      31 Oct31 October 22:49

      Idiotic statement.

  • Jack says:

    1 Nov1 November 01:33

    At this rate there’ll be nothing left let alone any kind of normality… Let the vulnerable isolate and let the rest of us get on with it.

    • Simon Barlow says:

      1 Nov1 November 09:00

      Unfortunately Jack the logistics of this are impossible. This simplistic approach is not possible in practice. Everyone who is vulnerable but works? The people that refuse to obey the isolation? How do the isolated get care/food. Vulnerable poeple that live with non-vulnerable people? The infections would still balloon out of control and overwhelm the NHS.

    • Ryan Gill says:

      1 Nov1 November 09:32

      +1

  • Chris says:

    1 Nov1 November 09:42

    The longer these restrictions keep going on for, many millions of us won’t have homes to stay in as the PM urges us to do.

    I have to assume these people in favour of restrictions don’t work in events, hospitality or other industries being forcibly closed?

    • Josh says:

      1 Nov1 November 09:50

      Most, I suspect, are either retired or public sector workers who will be paid regardless

      • Cat says:

        1 Nov1 November 12:33

        Or are public sector workers, whose jobs put them into close contact with many members of the public on a daily basis.
        If these restrictions don’t keep going, or aren’t enforced, our jobs put us at increased risk.

• ChrisD says:

  31 Oct31 October 22:42

  You don’t know my personal circumstances, the fact that this headline has made me seriously concerned that we will not be able to move to Europe before the end of the year. My “attitude” throughout this whole crisis has been one of utmost caution and I’m also angry that others have seemingly ignored the rules and landed us in this mess again. So please don’t judge based on one comment and instead urge decent journalism and headlines that don’t sensationalise the real situation with travel abroad.

• Greenpen says:

  31 Oct31 October 23:06

  Good. A hard crackdown is the only thing that can stop transmission. It happened in China and bye and large they have not suffered from the virus..

  • Aliks says:

    31 Oct31 October 23:39

    I’m afraid Corona Virus is here to stay. A good crackdown can only give a temporary respite. As soon as we all start socialising again, transmission will resume unabated.

  • Andy says:

    1 Nov1 November 09:07

    Do you really believe anything you hear that comes out of China!

• PM says:

  1 Nov1 November 00:01

  Pandemics need to be managed not stopped. We did not stop HIV or even a seasonal flu. We manage it.

  The way to manage it is not by lockdowns but by effective track, trace and isolate system. You can do it old style door to door like in poor Cuba, by aggressive means like in totalitarian China or through high tech technology like in Singapore or Korea.

  Lockdowns freeze the problem not manage it, the moment you open up, transmission increases.

  Lockdowns are the only option when you fail to improve health service capacity, when you fail to create a meaningful tracing system, when you have no control and just want a breather after running frantically without a set direction.

  Lockdowns kill more people than save. They kill slowly, through suicides, anxieties, depressions, hardship. They kill young, strip them of opportunities, damage self worth and confidence. These deaths do not hit the news, they happen quietly, without heat maps, graphs and statistics.

  Lockdowns save eight five year olds at the expense of twenty somethings.

  Every year 50000 people in UK die of a seasonal flu – we do not lockdown. We keep getting away with the underfunded health service as we got used to living with the flu. It is not sensational, even though every winter our wards are over 80% full, waiting times to A&E and routine appointments are unacceptably long, we don’t think about, it is a fact of life, when you are old, suffer from other conditions and catch a flu, you might die.

  WHO said from day one: test, test, test. We answered Serco and Dido Harding.

  WHO said social distancing. We answered Eat Out to Help Out.

  WHO said to get compliance you need to build trust within communities. We had Dominic Cummings and prof Ferguson.

  WHO said go after the virus, fast and strong. We wasted six months.

  This is one of the richest countries in the world. We are not Vietnam or Mongolia. We have Cambridge and Oxford. Top researchers, state of the art labs, cutting edge technology.

  And yet we are still in the same place as in March – half of us scared to death. Freezing our lives, sacrificing time we will not be given back in the future.

  • Callum says:

    1 Nov1 November 01:35

    1. You can’t just stop HIV, it’s not remotely comparable.

    2. The seasonal flu doesn’t spread through populations like wildfire, filling up hospitals to capacity.

    3. That’s all well and good but a) we don’t have an effective track and trace system and b) I’ve not seen any country manage to control a huge outbreak with it – what have I missed?

    4. Utter rubbish. Lockdowns greatly reduce the problem – they don’t simply “freeze” it. They don’t necessarily cure the problem if you don’t do it properly (though it has in New Zealand and likely will in Australia), but who is claiming it does?

    5. Provide proof that lockdowns kill more than they save and perhaps I’ll listen.

    6. So, f*ck the elderly and disabled? Charming.

    7. As mentioned before, seasonal flu (which isn’t just one virus) has a radically different transmission pattern, making the comparison redundant.

    8. Based on the rest of your rant I can readily accept that you don’t care about people suffering in overcrowded hospitals over winter, many of us actually do however.

    9. Seasonal flu does not kill 50,000 people every year (nor can I find where you get that number from – are you reading conspiracy sites, that would explain a lot of this garbage).

    10. Seasonal flu never results in hospitals across the entire country reaching 100% capacity, requiring emergency field hospitals to take the strain.

    11. Its not good health policy (or just plain ethical) to just let a bunch of people die because it’s a “fact of life”. It may have escaped your notice, but we spend a great deal of time and effort avoiding things like that.

    12. The UK has the second highest rating rate in the world. While they’ve certainly bunged a whole host of stuff, you can’t pretend that they haven’t intended to “test, test, test”.

    13. Indeed, Eat Out was an issue, though we should all realise Boris cares more about money than human life (though it’s an interesting criticism from you given your similarities).

    14. While those events are certainly problematic, I strongly disagree that people would have complied with the rules if it wasn’t for Cummings getting away with it. They weren’t complying with even the tamest of regulations well before then. Its the “I don’t care about others” attitude that’s the problem, combined with a complete lack of enforcement.

    15. What makes you think half the country are scared to death? And I’m very sorry that your precious time hasn’t been deemed more important to preserve than human life.

    • James says:

      1 Nov1 November 02:49

      +1 Callum. And thanks for the time you’ve taken responding to this nonsense.

      • Josh says:

        1 Nov1 November 03:03

        Well it must be one of the longest comments HfP has had…

        • Alex Sm says:

          1 Nov1 November 10:25

          The only question is whether it brought us closer to the truth. The answer is no

        • Lady London says:

          1 Nov1 November 14:35

          And worth reading.

        • Capt Hammond says:

          1 Nov1 November 20:30

          And most risible

    • Char Char says:

      1 Nov1 November 07:54

      Prove that lockdowns work then and no posting data about a reduction In cases that were already happening due to the virus being seasonal don’t count

    • Ruth4325 says:

      1 Nov1 November 08:50

      Spot on Callum

    • TGLoyalty says:

      1 Nov1 November 09:00

      Re 2 it has and does only the effective vaccine stops it doing so.

    • Alan says:

      1 Nov1 November 09:59

      Well said, Callum, although I doubt the OP will bother to read!

    • PM says:

      1 Nov1 November 11:49

      Thanks Callum – you are certainly very passionate about the subject. I wish there was so much passion and eagerness to sort out the current situation among our Government officials. Six months of no tracing system, undermining isolating advice with own advisors breaching rules and putting Serco teenagers in tracking roles is a crime against the nation. Their own exercise Cyngus in 2016 and preparedness reports in 2019 described very well how to get things right. Yet, our only option is still a lockdown.

      Please check Office for National Statistic
      data regarding average number of excess winter deaths, England and Wales, 1950/51 to 2014/15. Excess deaths in 2014/15 (so in addition to a regular flu death expectation) was 44000, in just four winter months.

      Were these people less important than those dying now? There was no lockdown then, so why now?

      It is because we are still not ready to manage the pandemic. One of the richest countries in the world.

      Now it is time to finally sort out test/trace/isolate. It is time for the Government to show vulnerability, compassion, rebuild trust, activate localised response and stop these nonsense how we are world beating, fantastic, got it right.

  • AndyC says:

    1 Nov1 November 02:40

    We also had Robert ‘Three Homes’ Jenrick, who was yet another to flout, or otherwise ignore, the advice that was out there at the time, and who, like Cummings, got away with it thanks to BoJo being in the hospital (not that Jenrick would have been leant on to resign anyway)..

    • Crafty says:

      1 Nov1 November 08:52

      And that he’s overwhelmingly corrupt already.

  • SWWT says:

    1 Nov1 November 10:16

    Well considered, some valid points. A student of Ivor Cummins maybe?
    You appear to have touched a nerve….

  • John says:

    1 Nov1 November 11:06

    For those who think there is consensus, the WHO do NOT recommend lockdowns as a primary way to control infection and in Europe all they’re doing is lockdown. That’s the strategy. Be careful paraphrasing the WHO to fit the lockdown agenda.

    CDC put excess deaths not due to Covid; but related to Covid, ie cancer deaths, suicides etc at between 100-200k.

    • James says:

      1 Nov1 November 20:09

      Really John? You do understand that the lockdown is to try to control (excess) demand on the limited NHS acute beds, don’t you. This is pretty basic stuff.

• AJA says:

  1 Nov1 November 00:58

  This whole fiasco is just what I thought would happen. We were treated like adults under the different tiers but everyone complained that those in Tier 3 were being discriminated against most, followed by those in Tier 2.

  Labour and several media outlets all complained that BoJo was ignoring Sage and that a national “circuit breaker” lockdown was necessary. Now that BoJo has done what they all wanted we now have the complaints starting that it wasn’t done soon enough and now it’s unfair because it’s draconian measures and we can’t travel etc.

  And we have people yet again trying to work out how to circumvent the rules or saying they’re going to do a Dominic Cummings/Margaret Ferrier/Victoria Derbyshire (highlight preferred choice) and do their own thing. It’s ridiculous, we are where we are precisely because people have not followed the rules and have done whatever they want.

  it’s 4 weeks where we have to stay at home unless it’s absolutely necessary to be elsewhere. Get a grip people and just follow the rules!

  • Cat says:

    1 Nov1 November 01:08

    👍
    Although I do think it was exceptionally daft that they didn’t do it a week ago.

    • Polly says:

      1 Nov1 November 14:37

      Yes, the signs were there, but local objections delayed the decision…

  • Brian P says:

    1 Nov1 November 09:23

    “precisely because people have not followed the rules”

    i haven’t seen any evidence for this, just speculation. it is more than likely schools and universities open, shops open, rule of 6 in restaurants is enough to raise the R well over 1 with 100% compliance.

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