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The new HFP chat thread – Tuesday 16th June

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We have decided to run this new daily chat thread on Head for Points.

Historically, the daily ‘Bits’ articles were the defacto repository for random comments and questions.  It is unlikely that the news flow will be so big over the next few weeks that we will need many ‘Bits’ articles, however.

The comments under this article are where you should post questions about travel and, indeed, anything else on your mind.  At this tricky time, and given that many of you are stuck at home self-isolating, we want the HFP community to have a place to chat.

Please only comment under the main articles on the site if your comment is directly related to the topic of the article.  This has long-term benefits as its keeps the commentary relevant for people who read those articles in the future.

By default, HFP shows the last page of comments under the article.  If you want to see the first page of comments and read them all from beginning to end in order, click here: https://hfp2022.headforpoints.blog/2020/06/16/the-new-hfp-chat-thread-tuesday-16th-june/comment-page-1.  The page will refresh with this article but the comments will now show the first page and not the last page.

We will continue to monitor how this is working.  Let’s see how it goes.  Take care!

Category

General

Comments (271)

This article is closed to new posts. Discussion continues in the HfP Forums.

  • Sam says:
    16 Jun16 June 11:06

    Has anyone had issues with referral points with amex recently? usually they of course post very quickly..

    Would like to refer from my platinum card but don’t want to keep the card open for extra 90 days in hopes of points posting…

    • Munch says:
      16 Jun16 June 14:45

      Completed a referral on a plat bus card 2 weeks ago – posted as normal 5-7 days following the application.

  • GRIMZ says:
    16 Jun16 June 11:29

    Hi Folks, looking for some advice.
    I have a booking that I made with Sykes cottages last year for a cottage holiday on the 4th July in Scotland. I live in Scotland and I called the company to state that we are not allowed to travel and they got in touch with the owner who agreed to refund me there part of the booking which was £370. Sykes cottages part of the payment was around £150 and they have said they will credit this into my account for a future holiday and made it clear this an ex-gratia credit for what they was paid from the owner in commission fees (basically saying I am lucky to get this part of the refund). What are my options (if any) in claiming this part of my cancelled holiday back? I do not want there credit, I want my cash refund!!

    • jamie says:
      16 Jun16 June 11:56

      You are entitled to a full refund

    • EwanG says:
      16 Jun16 June 12:02

      Currently we are in Phase 1 in Scotland, as you say you can only travel short distances for leisure or exercise but staying in your local area, which is within five miles of your house. This will change in Phase 2, however it won’t be until Phase 3 that hotels and other accommodation will start to reopen (currently some remain open in special circumstances, such as providing for key workers, those self isolating etc). Your cottage booking will be in Phase 2 and so it cannot be honoured.
      I’d go back to Sykes with the above, pointing out the CMA stance about refunds (“the CMA would expect a consumer to be offered a full refund where: no service is provided by a business, for example because this is prevented by Government public health measures;”) and if they still refuse then go to your card provider for an S75 claim (credit card over £100) or chargeback. As a last resort go to your travel insurer.

      • GRIMZ says:
        16 Jun16 June 12:24

        Thanks for your advice

      • GRIMZ says:
        16 Jun16 June 15:01

        Sykes are saying the contract is with me and the owner (even though I paid Sykes) and any dispute you have is with the owner. The owner pays commission to Sykes and this is the part that has not been refunded.

        • EwanG says:
          16 Jun16 June 22:33

          As a comparison I’ve looked at the conditions for Lastminute.com to see what they say about acting as an agent, the key line they have is “these Booking Terms and Conditions are your contract with us solely in respect of your use of our booking services via our Booking Channels“.The Sykes terms say the contract is solely between the client and relevant owner, i.e. no contract established between you and Sykes, surprisingly!
          In any case, the contract cannot be fulfilled and your money should be returned in full. I would now go down the S75 or chargeback route to get your remaining money back.

  • Dan says:
    16 Jun16 June 11:42

    Getting the e-mail through from BA offering me to take a voucher for flights out of LGW in August. Does it look like BA will still not be operating at LGW in August? I have never fallen for this ploy in previous months when May, June and July flights were cancelled – wondering when BA will start-up at Gatwick again…

    • memesweeper says:
      16 Jun16 June 13:11

      supplementary question: if a flight is moved from LGW to LHR is it ‘cancelled’ within the meaning of EC261?

      • Lady London says:
        16 Jun16 June 13:30

        BA doesnt think so but personally with LGW being so far away from London I dont think they should be able to consider all the London airports to be the same. I think they are mostly getting away with it though.

      • Lady London says:
        16 Jun16 June 13:32

        However if the flight number changes I have got an idea it counts as a cancelled flight? others may know if this would apply.

      • AJA says:
        16 Jun16 June 13:35

        I got the email offering a voucher for my flight on 31 Aug from LGW. I forgot that I am flying on 31 Aug I thought it was 1 Sep. I don’t expect it will operate from LGW but I am going to wait and see if they cancel it or reschedule it to operate from LHR. If they do move it to operate from LHR they almost certainly will cancel the LGW flight number and assign it a new number for a flight from LHR. If that happens then it is a cancellation with the meaning of EC261.

      • memesweeper says:
        16 Jun16 June 14:22

        thanks all — so if the flight number changes, or time changes significantly, that’s cancellation for EC261 purposes anyway.

  • alan young says:
    16 Jun16 June 11:45

    Looking to go to Italy next May in economy using Avios for both of us, and wondered if its better to use mostly points than cash or mostly cash than points. The reason for asking is that pre covid 19 I basically didn’t worry as I could cancel for £1, however now it costs too cancel. (not sure is it £35 per booking or per pax) hence the reason for asking.

    • Rob says:
      16 Jun16 June 11:52

      What’s the pence per point you’re getting for Avios?

      What’s the likelihood you might cancel?

      These are the two key factors which you havent shared. However, why is cancellation an issue? For an Avios booking, even £35 is better than booking for cash and losing 100%. If there is even the slightest risk you may cancel then surely Avios is better as long as you’re also getting a decent ‘pence per point’ rate.

      • alan young says:
        16 Jun16 June 12:54

        Thanks Rob, is it £35 per booking or pax? Always manged to cancel for a pound before even using the fiddly thingy.

  • Ryan says:
    16 Jun16 June 11:51

    BA have emailed to say that I can change a flight to Oslo I have booked in early August. The options are to change the dates or get a voucher. Given I paid for the flight in Avios, plus 50p, any idea what the voucher will be for?! Thanks in advance.

    • Rob says:
      16 Jun16 June 11:56

      The voucher is for the Avios plus 50p!

      I would wait to see if BA cancels your flight. You will then get the Avios back into your main account rather than mucking about with a voucher.

  • Frenske says:
    16 Jun16 June 11:57

    What happens when BA cancelled flights bought with points? When I go through the cancellation option it only gives the option for a voucher.
    Will I get my points back into my account and get a voucher for the monetary part of the transaction or will the convert the points into money (probably at a lousy rate) or voucher will be a mixed (cash + points)?

    • Rhys says:
      16 Jun16 June 11:58

      You need to call to get a proper refund of cash and Avios – the functionality has been disabled online (unless you want a voucher of course)

  • AndyGWP says:
    16 Jun16 June 12:04

    Following on from this udpated article: https://headforpoints.com/2020/06/10/british-airways-book-with-confidence-policy/

    I’ve just had an email offering the travel voucher (for an Avios ‘2 for 1 voucher’ flight booked last year, for departure this August from LHR)

    IIRC – the only benefit of accepting the travel voucher would be if I didn’t already have 2-for-1 vouchers coming out of my ears. Correct?

    • AndyGWP says:
      16 Jun16 June 12:05

      (I should add, that I can cancel for free anyways as they cancelled their route to Calgary)

    • Rhys says:
      16 Jun16 June 12:16

      The voucher also adds flexibility since you don’t need Avios availability to use it.

      • SImon Shering says:
        16 Jun16 June 12:39

        So if I have economy flights booked with Avios, could I take the voucher and pay the extra taxes and avios to get a business seat?

        • Rhys says:
          16 Jun16 June 12:56

          Again, we’re not 100% sure how the voucher will work in practise based on redemption bookings.

          Whilst you can normally change the class of an Avios redemption, it really depends how the voucher is implemented. If using the voucher is still technically a redemption booking despite not needing redemption availability then you probably can upgrade. If it’s somehow treated as a cash booking it might be upgradable under ‘Upgrade with Avios,’ which allows you to upgrade by one class only, or it may not be upgradeable at all.

      • pauldb says:
        16 Jun16 June 12:52

        Don’t think so. You can push a cancelled flight back up to a year without requiring avios availability. But if you take a voucher, valid to April 2022, it would have to be used where there is availability. So the benefit of the voucher is that it extends your 241 to April.

        I’ve rebooked one myself but it was on the same route. I got the impression I could have flown further by paying the avios difference.

        • SImon Shering says:
          16 Jun16 June 12:57

          I did mean on a rebooked flight. We basically had 2 bookings – 1 in my wife’s names using a 2-4-1 in business and 1 booking in my name for 2 seats in economy as no business available.

          I am taking the voucher for my wife’s booking.
          Just not sure what to do with mine – I am hoping I can bag the 2 business seats for next Aug when they come out and then will use the wife’s voucher to get another 2.

        • Rhys says:
          16 Jun16 June 13:00

          I agree it isn’t wholly clear.

          • Fred (Your comment is awaiting moderation) says:
            16 Jun16 June 14:16

            Have you no contacts within BA? Is no-one actually enquiring of BA?

          • Rob says:
            16 Jun16 June 15:05

            You have a very sweet but unfortunately totally incorrect idea of who actually knows what is going on in these places! It is best to assume that they know even less than you do.

            For example, I got an Amex press release recently which made two incorrect statements about who qualifies for the sign-up bonus on their cards. They don’t even known themselves.

      • AJA says:
        16 Jun16 June 13:15

        Rhys the Future Travel Voucher in exchange for a reward ticket using Avios essentially is the original ticket containing the Avios and taxes frozen for you to rebook at any point until end of April 2022 (remembering that both outbound and inbound travel must be completed by end of April 2022).

        It still requires Avios availability to redeem it. This is a problem if you have a booking in First since BA does not guarantee any reward seat availability. The advantage of it is that it extends a 2-4-1 voucher beyond its original expiry date. That is the only circumstance where I would take the FTV rather than just cancelling and having everything refunded.

        You can use the FTV to book any other flight for the same number of Avios, you are not restricted to your original routing bu there must be reward seat availability.

        The ability to book non-reward seats is only available where you are rescheduling the current booking. Ordinarily that is only available when BA cancels a flight and is for the period -3 to +14 days of original departure but there was a concession by BA allowing you to rebook up to 1 year from original flight subject to ticket validity. In the case of a booking made nearly a year ago this concession is essentially useless, even though there is no specific ruling within EC261 about ticket validity, since BA will argue that the original ticket validity expires well before the flight you’re considering..

        The biggest turn off with the FTV is that you cannot redeem it online, you have to call. So if you’ve taken one in exchange for a reward booking not only do you have to find availability you then have to phone up to book by which time chances are availability may disappear.

        • Lady London says:
          16 Jun16 June 13:36

          if BA cancels a flight they cannot insist on avios seats being available on the flight you want to reroute to. There just has to be a seat (even revenue) available on the flight in the same class.

          • AJA says:
            16 Jun16 June 13:55

            LL I agree but you run into the ticket validity issue. I wanted to move my reward booking in First (A) to Tel Aviv for July 2020 to a date in May 2021 that absolutely had First (A) revenue seat availability but no reward seats but BA would not do it since the original ticket validity was only until 18 November 2020. Perhaps I should have hung up and called again.

          • Lady London says:
            16 Jun16 June 14:31

            I think EC261 is silent on whether ticket validity length, normally about 1 year or uo to 2 weeks or so less than 1 year, calculated from the date your ticket was issued not from the date of your outgoing flight, can be enforced due to a passenger invoking their EC261 right to choose a later date to fly on when the airline cancels their flight.

            FWIW many people may be only able to travel at a particular date/time in each year, perhaps due to their holiday or an annual event, so personally I think a passenger should be able to request a flight even slightly more than one yeae after the cancelled one. However EC261 does use the word ‘reroute’ which implies using the existing ticket and its conditions.

            FWIW cases have bwen reported by posters here where BA reticketed (i.e. new fresh ticket) where this was an issue and did not just insist on reissuing same ticket.

          • Lady London says:
            16 Jun16 June 14:36

            @AJA I suspect as with the Tokyo issue above, BA could do it and should issue a new ticket as their cancellation was not your fault, but as Rhys’s comments I suspect they are holding back First seats at that time next year hoping to sell them for cash instead.

            I think you should insist on being ticketed on your new date in First and tell them the mechanics of that are not your concern EC261 says any seat available in the correct class clearly meaning does not have to be an avios seat

          • AJA says:
            16 Jun16 June 16:27

            Thanks LL. It’s a moot point anyway as in the end I opted to just have everything back. My 2-4-1 has a pretty long expiry date given the extra 6 months extension and I find the ability to book online useful. I would like to book exactly the trip I had planned but for July 2021, I will just wait and see if any First availbility comes up or may just book Club as one of the other flights is on the A350 with the Club Suite which would work perfectly for me and is fewer Avios too.

        • Jon says:
          16 Jun16 June 14:09

          Another thing to keep in mind is that, with the FTV voucher having to be fully used (outbound and return flown) by April 2022, but the 241 voucher only requiring booking and outbound flown by its expiry date, if you got your 241 late last year / early this year, you may be better off not taking the FTV. E.g. I got my 241 in August last year, but it has been extended by 6 months, so expires in February 2022 – meaning my return flight could be as far out as January 2023…

          In case it’s of use to anyone, something else BA confirmed when I was on chat with them earlier (took about 10 minutes to get through, not too bad I thought) – if (as I do) you have a 241 with only the outbound booked so far, and you take a FTV voucher, you’ll still be able to add the inbound later in the usual way – you won’t lose half of the 241 value. In case anyone was wondering 🙂

      • memesweeper says:
        16 Jun16 June 13:17

        I beg to differ.

        1. If your Avios flight is cancelled, and you call up, you can insist on rebooking on a later flight without reward availability.

        2. If you take a voucher for your Avios flight that’s cancelled, or if you choose to cancel, and you call up to spend spend the voucher, reward availability is required for your next flight.

        This is based on my actual experience with the call centre, twice, and getting them to do ‘1’ was a struggle.

    • Anna says:
      16 Jun16 June 12:29

      I’ve just had one of these for (yet another) BA booking which will probably be cancelled. I am also wondering, if your voucher is say, for 20k avios, and you don’t need avios availability, can you still use it towards a flight which would require more avios? How would that work? I took vouchers for flights collectively worth 48k avios and might struggle to find something which exactly replicates that.

      • Rhys says:
        16 Jun16 June 12:35

        I think the idea is that the voucher is to be used on the same route. Not sure if it is entirely possible to use on another route – there’s still a lot we don’t necessarily know for sure about these vouchers

        EDIT: the Future Travel Voucher can be used on any flights – but it looks like availability is required.

        • Anna says:
          16 Jun16 June 12:54

          I don’t necessarily want to use it on the same route though! That is not at all clear from what BA has said about these vouchers.

      • meta says:
        16 Jun16 June 12:42

        Same here for my flight back from Porto end of August! Every time I get one of these, a week or two later the flight is cancelled.

  • Brian Stevens says:
    16 Jun16 June 12:28

    https://headforpoints.com/2020/04/26/curve-card-adds-1-5-fee-credit-card-repayments-national-savings-premium-bond-purchases/

    I have just used a curve card to purchase income bonds from NS&I. Curve fronted was turned of, however curve has accepted the transaction and there is no charge showing for 1.5%.

    • Rahaney says:
      16 Jun16 June 12:39

      Are you a metal user? It’s a free of charge service/included in the monthly fee if you are.

    • stevenhp1987 says:
      16 Jun16 June 14:47

      I’ve not been charged the 1.5% fee at all. Doesn’t look like they’ve actually enabled it for NS&I yet!

      • Secret Squirrel says:
        16 Jun16 June 16:18

        Be a sad day when they enable NS&I but until let it shine!

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