The new HFP chat thread – Sunday 5th April

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• Boi says:

  5 Apr5 April 09:19

  Anyone heard of Asmallworld? I have received an invite for 3 months free trial (not sure why/how). Reading about it says it’s an exclusive club?

  • Michael C says:

    5 Apr5 April 09:39

    Saw it with our 4-yr old in Orlando!

    • meta says:

      5 Apr5 April 10:00

      😂

  • meta says:

    5 Apr5 April 10:03

    Yes, it’s a travel related club. Pretty much useless for next 3 months and even then unless you want a quarter million Miles&More or Etihad miles and are willing to pay thousands for it.

    • Boi says:

      5 Apr5 April 11:44

      Yeah I saw the huge membership fees. I wondered if it really gives rewards worth that much?

• Aston100 says:

  5 Apr5 April 09:33

  Does anyone know if Amex Travel charge an admin fee for handling a flight refund?
  Thanks.

  • Sloth says:

    5 Apr5 April 09:52

    They don’t charge admin fees. Need to check the cancellation terms of your booking though

  • jimbo says:

    5 Apr5 April 11:10

    £20pp, normally waived though

    • Aston100 says:

      5 Apr5 April 13:04

      Thank you both.

• CapeCam says:

  5 Apr5 April 09:57

  Just about to hit buy on a VS redemption flight in order to burn miles. Does anyone have a definitive answer on what happens to flights + taxes on VS mileage flights if Virgin go belly up ? Looking for definitive answer based on current legislation ? Thanks

  • Doug M says:

    5 Apr5 April 10:38

    If you want a definitive legal opinion the comments on a travel site are hardly the place to be. Pay a lawyer, and then it’ll be just an opinion, because until it’s tested in court that’s all it is.

    • Rob says:

      5 Apr5 April 10:42

      You need to dig out S75 of the Consumer Credit Act and decide if it actually says that the card company is responsible for a cash refund OR if it says the card company must fulfil your purchase. If the latter, you’re laughing. If the former, you just get taxes back.

    • Mac D says:

      5 Apr5 April 10:46

      Doug seems like you just said waste money on a lawyer for their opinion vs the collective hive mind of HFP, I know what I have listened to and had success with and it didn’t involve paying

      • Doug M says:

        5 Apr5 April 10:57

        Not suggesting for one moment that info here is not very often useful. But if you request a definitive answer that’s a stretch. I think this is a good example of how these things often work now. It’s back and forth over a few days of what to do in quite a niche situation. Eventually a certain view becomes dominant, and then it’s repeated as if fact. The redeem miles and pay taxes and fees on a credit card will guarantee you S75 protection for the entire flight has become an accepted truth in quite a few comments. See Rob’s post just above. But, we really don’t know it is the case. Look at the BA Amex, everyone expected that to be exempt from the cap on interchange fees, but the final court decision was otherwise.
        Personally I don’t think it will be the case. Expecting the credit card S75 guarantee to in effect underwrite the points value (of a now defunct airline) seems quite a stretch to me. Money back yes, equivalent business class flight, well good luck.

        • Doug M says:

          5 Apr5 April 10:59

          Clarification, I’m not suggesting Rob says it is, just that he’s saying read it yourself and decide. So what is clear is that nothing is certain.

        • Mac D says:

          5 Apr5 April 11:00

          yes good points there

        • TGLoyalty says:

          5 Apr5 April 11:53

          S75 does mean credit cards are on the hook for consequential losses. There are many stories of people not just getting refunds but claiming for alternatives when companies have gone bust. Why does it matter what happens for flights they are the same as a TV or a tumble dryer etc etc when it comes to S75.

          Have to stress it needs to be via an actual credit card.

• Rob says:

  5 Apr5 April 10:20

  I am sitting on 500,000 Virgin points.

  Should I be worried?

  What is the best way to use them?

  Would rather not buy 100’s of bottles of wine…

  • Rob says:

    5 Apr5 April 10:43

    750k Hilton points or 500k IHG points. Neither of which are worth anywhere near as much as 500k Virgin miles.

    • Ian M says:

      5 Apr5 April 11:15

      But they’re worth a lot more than nothing if Virgin goes under.

      Transfers out of Virgin to Hilton seem to be taking a long time. My miles left Virgin 2 weeks ago, but no sign of them arriving with Hilton yet.

    • Doug M says:

      5 Apr5 April 11:16

      But they have some value, 500K FC miles potentially have a value of 0, and as you’ve said yourself Hilton and IHG have a much better outlook than Virgin. This is now entirely a personal judgment call on Virgin’s likelihood to survive. I’m doing nothing because I’m indecisive. In a few days/weeks/months some of us will seem cleverer than others.

      • J says:

        5 Apr5 April 11:29

        Yes exactly that. Lots seem to think VS is about to disappear – I think that’s very unlikely. But, perhaps in the longer term it won’t be the same size.

    • Roger says:

      5 Apr5 April 12:11

      Could QR or other ME carrier take over VS in these situations and govt may allow more than 50% foreign ownership under current circumstances.
      With Brexit, I wouldn’t think UK Government is too much worried about not following EU laws as it stands.

      • Rob says:

        5 Apr5 April 13:12

        Government has to follow EU law. You can be 99% sure there will be at least 1-year extension to the withdrawal agreement too, taking us to December 2021.

        Open skies regulations would probably mean most routes couldn’t operate anyway. A Virgin flight from London to NY would be seen as an Emirates flight (if Emirates bought Virgin) and so subject to the UAE-US aviation treaty.

        You COULD have Air France KLM taking it over. Air France is about to get a €6bn bailout so some of that could be diverted. Lufthansa is about to get a similar deal – buying Virgin, folding it into Star Alliance and stuffing Delta all in one transaction – using German Government money – would be quite attractive.

        • Lady London says:

          5 Apr5 April 18:46

          Hey Rob are you able to share why you are 99% sure we will get an extension of withdrawal agreement to Dec 2021? I know you move in exalted circles not a million miles from Westminster… Does your view come from information or your considered judgment?

        • Rob says:

          5 Apr5 April 19:36

          The deal has to be fully agreed by 1st July to allow for ratification etc. Not looking likely is it?

        • Lady London says:

          5 Apr5 April 18:49

          Hmmm Virgin and Lufthansa…. Lufthansa could finally be sexy. Scary.

• Michael C says:

  5 Apr5 April 10:34

  Any idea of Plaza Premium T4 cancellation policy? Sis paid ahead for 2 entries for 2 May they will now of course not use.
  Cheers.

  • ChrisA says:

    5 Apr5 April 10:42

    Having just looked at their website, it would seem that refunds are currently only being offered for bookings up to 30th April, with a ‘watch this space’ for bookings after that.

    • Michael C says:

      5 Apr5 April 10:53

      Cheers, Chris – they did in fact answer v quickly: just normal cancellation of USD10 per person for now.

• Keith says:

  5 Apr5 April 10:42

  Curve

  UK ATM withdrawals

  HFP wrote previously re UK ATM withdrawals “£200 per 30-day period”

  How does one know what the precise 30 day period is at any given time?

  Thanks

  • Lumma says:

    5 Apr5 April 10:53

    I think as long as you don’t go crazy, they rarely charge the extra 2% if at all

  • Nick_C says:

    5 Apr5 April 12:41

    Look in the Curve app! The Fair Use Policy say £200 per calendar month. The limits show a rolling 30 day period.

    I’ve very occasionally breached both those, and not been charged, but I don’t take the mickey.

• Dezzabezza says:

  5 Apr5 April 10:51

  Hi- re protecting VS miles, is there any merit in booking somewhere (anywhere?) now with them potentially say for 11 months out then if they do go under you’ve then got S75 cover for the full value of the flight rather than just the taxes & duties? I saw someone reference ‘notional cost’ of the flight in a previous thread – what does this mean?
  Thanks

  • Stephen says:

    5 Apr5 April 11:03

    I have done this, but have booked somewhere that I would go to incase I’m unable to change the booking date. If S75 covers consequential loss, might need to book a replacement flight with the same route / date

  • Doug M says:

    5 Apr5 April 11:08

    I think they’re saying if you book a flight to x, using points and cash for the fees, say 100K points and £600 fees, that has a notional value of £2K, the cost of the normal business class flight. There’s a view that the S75 protection from the credit card is then on the hook for the £2K replacement flight, not the £600 you paid on the credit card. I’m not suggesting this is true, just that it’s being suggested, personally I don’t think it will be the case.

    • Lady London says:

      5 Apr5 April 18:54

      @Dawn did it coming back from Australia after their flights were cancelled and their original airline did not provide replacement flight. Cardci sponsored replacement flights £5K. They had paid a lot less.

  • Rob says:

    5 Apr5 April 11:17

    There is no proof that I’ve seen that your card company will book you a £5,000 fully flexible business class replacement flight on your chosen dates.

    • Stephen says:

      5 Apr5 April 11:36

      What about an EU261 claim? Can that still happen if airline enters into administration?

      • marcw says:

        5 Apr5 April 13:45

        Nope.

    • Jon says:

      5 Apr5 April 11:37

      Hi Rob,

      Page 9 here from the financial ombudsman:
      https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/2921/86.pdf

      “”The card provider’s liability to Mrs K under section 75 was not limited to passing on any refund it was able to obtain from the airline. The card provider was also liable to her for the additional costs she had reasonably incurred as a result of the airline’s breach of contract.”

      So whilst full fare J might not be reasonable (unless it is the ONLY flight available), the credit card company will be liable for the cost of a replacement flight. Might be worth running an article on this?

      • TGLoyalty says:

        5 Apr5 April 11:57

        I actually don’t understand why people seem to think flights are different from a TV or white goods.

        The Credit Card is 100% on the hook. You might not get fully flex flights but you should get an alternative flight in that class on those days to that destination. I would be sure you have booked a flight you actually want to take if you’re planning to use this route.

      • Doug M says:

        5 Apr5 April 13:49

        86/5? That situation seems different to me. Whilst I accept the consequential loss part, someone had travelled, and then had to buy different flights at additional cost to get home after an airline failed. What we’re talking about here is the notional value of points contributing to a fare purchase. I think this is further complicated by the issue that Virgin FC miles are not owned by Virgin Atlantic.

        Certainly agree this maybe a better punt than Hilton or IHG for anyone that wants to go this route.

        86/6 is worth a read, the word chancer comes to mind 🙂

        • TGLoyalty says:

          5 Apr5 April 15:02

          Yes 85/6 are absolute chancers and should have booked reasonable costing flights as to near their original return flight.

    • Charlieface says:

      5 Apr5 April 13:44

      Can’t begin to imagine why they wouldn’t be on the hook. Have heard of more than one case of people buying a kitchen or a car, it going wrong and costing far more to fix than it did to buy in the first place. CC is liable jointly and severally under the retailer’s contract, so if the retailer is liable for something, so is the CC

      • Jack says:

        5 Apr5 April 15:53

        Yes I agree, the important point is the breach of contract for which the credit card company is jointly liable.

        • Lady London says:

          5 Apr5 April 18:57

          Also liable for any statutes covering the purchase.

          For a vacuum cleaner this would be Sale of Goods Act or its new replacement. For air tickets that includes EC261.

• WillPS says:

  5 Apr5 April 11:30

  Anybody had any luck triggering Amex sign up bonuses (particularly Nectar) without waiting 2 years?

  • MarkH says:

    5 Apr5 April 11:49

    Not for nectar

  • Wally1976 says:

    5 Apr5 April 12:26

    Not for gold for my wife recently

  • WillPS says:

    5 Apr5 April 14:06

    Rats. I’ll bin it off and reset the clock. Maybe my fiancee could pick one up closer to Christmas too…

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