Bits: Virgin redemptions with infants, Qatar increasing Scandi frequencies, Amex and Ryanair

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• vlcnc says:

  29 Nov29 November 08:48

  I really enjoy this blog and have found it incredibly useful – it’s changed the way I travel immeasurably for the better, but snobbish comments like this don’t do it any favour.

  Ryanair isn’t a good product and not something I like supporting, but yes I have and occasionally fly Ryanair and also us Amex (a lot). For a lot of people its their only choice for a holiday at all, especially from the regions. I think Vueling is a far worse animal, and doesn’t get the criticism or scrutiny it should.

  • Nick_C says:

    29 Nov29 November 08:54

    I don’t see anything snobbish about wanting a quality service and being happy to pay more for it.

    Unfortunately, the majority seem happy to put up with anything in order to get the cheapest possible ticket, and sadly paying more for a quality product is becoming very difficult for short haul flights.

    • vlcnc says:

      29 Nov29 November 09:04

      I think there is room for choice, although I certainly don’t condone the levels Ryanair go to or how they treat their staff. But then again look at the contempt BA have for theirs?

      Anyway this wasn’t about the quality of service, it was the sneering smirking tone at the ‘type of people who fly Ryanair’ – poor people basically. There are these comments every now and then that are dropped into articles, other people have called them ou before and I am doing it now as I don’t think they come across a nice or pleasant.

    • Rob says:

      29 Nov29 November 09:05

      Which makes no sense, but I agree. I can get to Heathrow via bus, chauffered Merc or 10 options inbetween. I can stay in a hostel, a 5-star or many options inbetween when I land. So why is my flight reduced to the lowest common denominator?

      • vlcnc says:

        29 Nov29 November 09:19

        My point Rob was not about the airline product – I agree with you in terms of BA, I don’t want BA to be racing to the lowest common denominator for example and I think it is mistake – I want to fly them precisely to avoid that experience and that choice is now removed as it is no better than easyJet (I disagree with you on the value of Club Europe when you have status). Also this makes no sense from you as I have also said above, you seem to have issue with Ryanair when I think Vueling are far worse and it is frequently promoted on here?

        My point was about teh sneering smirking tone at the ‘type of people who fly Ryanair’ – poor people basically. There are these comments every now and then that are dropped into articles, other people have called them out before and I am doing it now as I don’t think they come across a nice or pleasant. For some people that is all they can afford, and whilst I don’t like using them they have opened up travel to people who otherwise would not be able to – I choose not to most of the time but characterising people by their income or class is quite low.

        • Rob says:

          29 Nov29 November 09:32

          Vueling is an Avios earn and burn partner which is why they are on here, as FR would be if it had a loyalty scheme.

          Poor targetting of Amex promotions has been a long running theme on here. Anyway, all I am doing is pointing out that no-one wants the Ryanair promo. The numbers don’t lie

          We have a €500 Vueling voucher to give away at the Christmas party too 🙂

      • vlcnc says:

        29 Nov29 November 09:44

        But you are pointing to the product here, and if Ryanair are getting such criticism because of of a bad product – so why are you so easy on Vueling? I mean to be fair that is why BA are becoming so bad, thanks to your friend Mr Cruz! 😛

        You are right about the numbers, that is fair enough – I suspect more would use it if there wasn’t a penalty for using it with the surcharge for using it – but I don’t have the figures so that would be be just speculation.

        Again my point is your tone, I don’t think I am the only one who reads this who is often blindsided by these rather off remarks – people have commented on this before. I don’t think it does your or the blog any favours and is a beneath the behaviour I would expect from someone I would hope I respect.

  • Rob says:

    29 Nov29 November 09:06

    The numbers, to be fair, speak for themselves on this one ….

    We used to use them a decade ago when they flew to Lubeck, where my parents in law live. That said, going via Hamburg on BA is a hugely improved experience even if door to door it is a bit longer. Lubeck is basically a shed. Once our flight was badly delayed, the one airport cafe shut on schedule and everyone was sat in, basically, a deserted and closed up shed – airport is too strong a word – waiting with virtually no staff of any sort around.

    I read an interesting line on Ryanair recently ‘people are loyal to the price, not the brand’. That is not a great place as a company to be, although at least Ryanair knows it will always be the lowest cost operator. BA can never be the lowest cost operator and if they lose brand loyalty then there is trouble.

    • vlcnc says:

      29 Nov29 November 09:23

      I absolutely agree with you about the better experience, and especially everything about your last paragraph.

      But as said above my comment wasn’t about product, it was the tone of your question ‘Do American Express customers fly Ryanair?’ and the rather smirking text beneath it.

      • LB says:

        29 Nov29 November 10:09

        Will you two please get a room ;).

      • vlcnc says:

        29 Nov29 November 11:27

        I am not sure I would wish to be inflicted on Rob or anyone like that haha… 😉

    • RussellH says:

      29 Nov29 November 15:41

      Lübeck sounds like my sort of airport – at least for arrivals. No long trek from the gate to immigration, or from there to the bus stop. But your description of a delayed departure reminds me of the time we waited … and waited … and waited at Schönefeld for a flight back to Liverpool (EZ, not FR) anxiously watching as departures to most other destinations were getting cancelled because of snow, and the cafes and bars clsoing at the same time.

    • xcalx says:

      29 Nov29 November 19:45

      “The numbers, to be fair, speak for themselves on this one …”

      True, if the offers were loaded at the same time. However these offers are not always loaded together so a fair comparison can’t be formed. The Eurostar offer could have been on weeks yet the Ryanair offer only days.

      Just my angle on this .

  • Czechoslovakia says:

    29 Nov29 November 09:13

    Ryanair beats walking…. just. But I read Robs comments more as a critical view on Amex, rather than Ryanair. As in, why does the world’s premium credit card provider actively promote offers with bargain basement product? If you’re paying £450 for plat, it’s fair to assume 100 MR points when you buy some Lidl value beans, isn’t going to be as interesting as a statement credit at Harrod’s. I also don’t get why Amex offers promotions on companies that surcharge use of Amex cards? Looking at you, appleyard!

    • vlcnc says:

      29 Nov29 November 09:57

      I think you’d be surprised – I know a fair few middle class people who do shop at Lidl! The number of ABC1 customers is actually one of their primary targets and their fastest growing customer base!

      I do get the alignment with brand values – if I were Amex I would really think about service. I have sometimes taken advantage of offers or tried to and ended up with a frustrating experience, which was then often sorted out effortlessly by Amex CS even when it wasn’t their issue. So I guess from that point of view, if I were Amex would I want to associate myself with Ryanair as a company – probably not…

      • Toby says:

        29 Nov29 November 10:20

        I’m middle class and do most my shopping at Lidl and do most my flying with Ryanair. Being on an average salary and wanting to go on holiday relatively often yet still save every month, means using these services and to be honest, I rate them both as highly if not better than their competitors.
        I do my short break holidays with Ryanair and save airmiles for anything long haul. Having flown Club Europe once (on avios), I would most definitely rather pay Ryanair for short haul than pay BA. Also living in “the regions” means a short £1 bus trip to Bristol is easier than a drive to Heathrow.

        I’ve checked all 6 of our AmEx and not got the offer so I wonder if it is so targeted that few people have actually even got it to claim it?

      • Tilly says:

        29 Nov29 November 12:06

        Does Lidl take Amex? Last time i was in there they didn’t accept it ……. do like Lidl but don’t go often as it’s not very convenient for me but when i get the opportunity i pop in.

      • RussellH says:

        29 Nov29 November 15:25

        Re Lidl (and Aldi). I never get the feeling that either of these, whether in the UK, Germany, France, Switzerland or Italy are frequented by anything other than ABC1 customers. Our recently opened nearest Lidl looks and feels far more upmarket than Tesco.

        Neither take Amex and have only taken Visa/MC since the interchange cap came in (except Scotland, where Aldi took credit cards for some years before).

    • the real harry1 says:

      29 Nov29 November 10:31

      nothing wrong with Lidl! – UK’s greatest European deli @ discount prices, it keeps winning prizes for top quality & is growing fast for a reason – though I must admit my Lidl shopping experience in London was pretty grim a couple of years ago when we took the kids up & needed a sandwich – full of jostling hobos which might explain why Londoners aren’t so keen – but out in the sticks a much more civil experience, you just need to buy the quality stuff

      re: Amex & Ryanair – don’t forget Amex is pushing hard to expand its customer base, advertising on TV etc – & with a reported household income threshold of just £20K, they clearly want to recruit more from a lower income demographic than you might think – and therefore working with Ryanair is entirely appropriate (not that higher income households don’t fly Ryanair, see the comments)

      also, Ryanair will be an increasingly important customer of theirs and doing ‘joint’ promos helps keep the relationship sweet

      anyway, nobody has pointed out that if the person who sent the 311 number to Raffles was amongst the first to open his email, of course it would be a low sign-up figure – what is it now, a day later?

      • vlcnc says:

        29 Nov29 November 11:09

        Also Amex have taken a stake in iZettle so are really working hard to get greater acceptance among small businesses which correlates with their yearly shop small promo.

        Also demographics are not so clear-cut anymore. You get wealthy people wearing Zara,, middle class people shopping at Lidl – people are more magpie like as consumers in the UK now so it’s a lot more nuanced.

      • Michael Jennings says:

        29 Nov29 November 13:58

        I like Aldi a little more than Lidl, but I love the German discount supermarket model. Stores that are not fancily fitted and which are in non-premium but accessible locations. The range of individual product lines is much smaller than in other supermarkets, but the quality is mostly excellent. (Also, there are interesting continental European products which are otherwise hard to find in the UK).

      • Alan says:

        3 Dec3 December 15:44

        @vlcnc interesting re iZettle stake – I’ve been very impressed by them and they had a clean sweep of the food vans at the Edinburgh Festival! Nice clear proposition for card acceptance/fees too.

    • Cate says:

      29 Nov29 November 13:37

      Not sure if Ryanair beats walking. If I rightly recall Ryanair earlier this year tested this theory by cancelling a lot of flights and customers surveyed said that next time they would rather walk than book with Ryan air again 🙂

    • Erico1875 says:

      29 Nov29 November 17:53

      At 20p a tin for Lidl beans. 100MR points! Id be emtying the shelf. Farting a lot mind you lol

  • pauldb says:

    29 Nov29 November 10:56

    Weirdly, I take complete the opposite issues on this. The article makes no judgement at all about Ryanair or its customers: what are you seeing that I’m not.
    On the other hand, I wouldn’t agree that the numbers don’t lie. The Eurostar offer could have been open for sign-up for a fortnight, and the Ryanair one 2 hours???

  • Leo says:

    29 Nov29 November 11:01

    I don’t detect a snobbish tone here at all. I accept “tone” can be subjective but it’s simply not here. It’s factual info. Unless you are commenting on the use of an exclamation mark.

    • vlcnc says:

      29 Nov29 November 11:26

      It’s cumulative – there has been snarky elitist condescending comments before as well, I am not the first to point this out. Someone has said before on something else Rob said if I remember “its comments like these that make me realise I don’t belong here” – that makes me quite sad. It comes across as pompous and snobbish. I think Rob could take a leaf out of Anika’s book in coming across as a bit more down to earth… 😉 Ooooh burn I went there… 😛

• Jaspr says:

  29 Nov29 November 08:49

  I didn’t get the offer and I’ve just flown with them AND I used my BA amex …gutted

  • mark2 says:

    29 Nov29 November 09:56

    Perhaps they feel that they don’t need to send the offer since you have already bought the product.

• Nick_C says:

  29 Nov29 November 08:51

  My OH uses Ryanair about once every six weeks to visit his Dentist in Lisbon. Usually a day trip. Usually costs about £30 – not much more than a train ticket to London. Not for me though.

  Seeing my local dentist next week. Will try to split the bill over two Amex cards to max out on shop small.

• Ryan says:

  29 Nov29 November 08:58

  Could anyone share the ‘special’ way to get the Eurostar offer loaded to my card?

  • Rob says:

    29 Nov29 November 09:04

    Can no longer be done.

• rams1981 says:

  29 Nov29 November 09:13

  OT Amex offers.
  Now it is impossible to manufacture offers on cards, I wondered if having them all stored in same account make a difference to the offerss you get? Eg if I keep my 3 Amex cards in 3 different account will they get more offers overall compared to keeping all in one account?

  • Genghis says:

    29 Nov29 November 09:59

    Not sure it makes a difference. We got the PO offer on 4/6 cards. The two that didn’t are my wife’s supp on her card but in a separate online account and my supp on my wife’s card which sit in my main online account. Confusing describing it!

• Lumma says:

  29 Nov29 November 09:27

  I don’t get the hatred for Ryanair, although I do hate getting to Stansted for early morning flights and going through security. (Although getting to Heathrow from East London isn’t easy without paying for a taxi early in the morning. N9 night bus?). But they do seem to offer real bargains as long as you’re flexible.

  My work schedule changes all the time but I find I can often go on sky scanner and look at London to “everywhere” and there’s usually something available. Went to Nuremberg for £24 earlier this year, booked a few days in advance only.

  If they auto allocate me a middle seat for a couple of hours, I can certainly deal with that for the prices they charge. Having said that, with Ryanair, I find if you wait till the last few minutes to check in, you often get a better seat than checking in way in advance, presumably because they allocate the cheaper seats first and leave the more expensive ones for longer on the hope that someone will pay for them.

  • Michael Jennings says:

    29 Nov29 November 14:02

    I fly Ryanair from time to time, but not nearly as much as I used to. This has relatively little to do with the airline product, other than that so many of their flights fly out of Stansted at ungodly hours in the morning. I used to be willing to put up with that, but these days I am willing to pay a little more to fly at more civilised hours and/or from LCY, if possible. (I’m a big fan of British Airways short haul Avios redemptions out of LCY).

    • Lumma says:

      29 Nov29 November 15:54

      Yeah, my strategy for those early flights from Stansted is to get a 3am national express bus and get there just before security opens. Then find a quiet corner until the flight is ready for boarding

• Liz says:

  29 Nov29 November 09:54

  OT: Lloyds Avios Credit Card Update – phone call last night from my Complaints Manager – my account has finally been fixed 3 days short of a full year since we applied. Was offered a further £50 compensation but I asked for the £24 2nd year fee to be added to that which they agreed – now received £386 in cash, I earned 24250 pts but have received all those points again plus a few thousand more – in total received 54129 Avios. I had the upgrade voucher manually added back in June and I have been told I will receive that again within 14 days. Proof will be on statement date on 18/12 if the pts transfer automatically but it looks like it has been fixed. Now I need to think of an extra unplanned holiday to use the 2 vouchers!

  • mark2 says:

    29 Nov29 November 09:59

    More bad news. It sounds like another gravy train is ending.

    • Liz says:

      29 Nov29 November 10:07

      I am happy it is finally fixed and happy with the compensation. This year between Lloyds, Barclaycard and BA for a delayed flight we have received £983 in compensation which has gone in to our holiday pot towards the taxes and surcharges for our flights. Without this blog I would never have known to ask for compensation for things like this!

      • RTS says:

        29 Nov29 November 12:39

        So much luck. My cards are always spot on 🙁

  • TripRep says:

    29 Nov29 November 13:20

    Nice work Liz, I’ve just started with my Lloyds Amex/Mastercard, yet to see how it goes, their fraud prevention seems weird, lets me buy electronics on Cyber Monday and book hotels in Germany, + expensive flights from Oz to KL in a foreign currency, but trying to use for a £5 at my local Tesco flags up as suspect and requests me to call in for verfication!

    • Liz says:

      29 Nov29 November 14:22

      I asked the guy about all the fraud on the Lloyds cards and he said it was an Amex breach not a Lloyds one. Our account so far hasn’t had any fraud – touch wood!

  • Anna says:

    29 Nov29 November 15:18

    I’ve been told they can’t fix it in 26 weeks and it’ll be the end of Jan. Fingers x’d for double points and voucher!

    • Darren says:

      29 Nov29 November 16:59

      Is double points an error on their parts org compensation for the appalling CS? I’m 4 months into the 6 and received £250 so far. Double would certainly sweeten the pain.

      • Liz says:

        29 Nov29 November 18:37

        The double pts is not an error. If you insist that they manually transfer the points because you need them for a redemption they will do it. When they do fix the problem it will trigger all the points again. So for those who are having the same problems you should use the card as much as possible and get them transferred manually each month. I stopped using the card after the first 6 mths to do spend on other cards – I probably should have kept going with the Lloyds card.

  • xcalx says:

    29 Nov29 November 16:31

    I got the card in June and used it to pay sons tax bill, points and upgrade voucher went through perfectly. Gutted.

  • Alan says:

    3 Dec3 December 15:47

    Woweee – never been more annoyed that my card has worked without a hitch!!

• Doug says:

  29 Nov29 November 10:46

  OT ShopSmall: I think this year offlicenses will shine again, but not about topping up your oyster, but with amazon top-up! It is really hard to come up with a list of offlicenses that will take amex (or at least it is listed). Some may charge 50p extra for card, but still worth it. Any tips?

  • mark2 says:

    29 Nov29 November 10:59

    How about high class grocers/delis depending on where you live.
    There are plenty of bottles of wine at 9/99/10.99 or a few beers. Some will split across cards.

    • Genghis says:

      29 Nov29 November 11:16

      I find the local corner shops aren’t great on pricing for wine and beer. Much rather take stamps.

      • Leo says:

        29 Nov29 November 11:31

        How many stamps can 1 person use in the age of the internet and email?

      • mark2 says:

        29 Nov29 November 11:39

        They can be when you get £5 back

      • mark2 says:

        29 Nov29 November 11:44

        I was thinking also of specialist wine shops.

      • Liz says:

        29 Nov29 November 11:55

        We go across to St Andrews – they have a nice cheesemonger so we buy a load of £10 gift vouchers, a nice wine shop, some nice gift and card shops and a butchers.

      • Genghis says:

        29 Nov29 November 12:14

        @Leo Useful for posting stuff you sell on ebay.

      • Leo says:

        29 Nov29 November 13:40

        A yes – all those NOW TV boxes, Lego and Ink….

  • Andrew (@andrewseftel) says:

    29 Nov29 November 12:05

    Would love to see an article about shop small sweet spots (even if they’re just nice pubs). How about it Rob?

    • lev441 says:

      29 Nov29 November 12:27

      +1!

      • Genghis says:

        29 Nov29 November 12:33

        Might be too London centric for some? I presume Rob might find it difficult to write about good pubs in Liverpool…

      • lev441 says:

        29 Nov29 November 14:12

        @genghis – perhaps, but could there could be a ‘central’ article based on readers comments as no doubt there would be quite a lot of o/t conversations going on throughout the two weeks of shopsmall.

    • Cate says:

      29 Nov29 November 13:24

      -1

    • TripRep says:

      29 Nov29 November 14:43

      Good quality independent off licences are your best bet.

      £11 decent bottle of vino for £6.

  • CV3V says:

    29 Nov29 November 18:23

    I go to a very nice whisky shop in Glasgow and buy a few £10 gift vouchers, just used the ones from last year at the weekend before they expired.

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